Random Philosophy (and other assorted chaos)

[jandros]

Hey guyz n girlz!

Here's a puzzle for whatever anyone wants to do with it ......... I mean like preferably "solve" or "discuss" ......

I threw together this Seuss-style prattle-prose when I got totally bored at work, and lo and behold, it seems to contain a "moral" of a certain kind. Any ideas as to what it is? Don't let the clutter or the context of the poem itself confuse too much, and there's a clue somewhere near the middle. Also the very last word. I'm sure I just made it too easy, but it should be really easy anyway:

The Curious Haze of Yesterdays

Can anyone tell me
the answer to this?
If you can resolve it
then don't be remiss
in setting me straight
before it's too late.
Just answer this question
that fosters congestion
in my feeble brain...
It drives me insane
to not know what is what
and thus untie the knot
of relentless confusion,
life's biggest contusion
of unsolved mysTEERy,
it makes me so DREARy!!
I just cannot breathe
till someone can relieve
this torment of despair
that denies me of air
and diverts me of purpose
like some stupid circus
with no tigers or bears,
oh my soul so despairs
of the simplest of truth,
for shame and forsooth!
I think I will die
if I cannot rely
on my dear sweetie friends
to bring this to an end.
A conclusion. Ablution.
Distinct resolution.
Now this is the thing
that doth blister and sting
my conscience so deep
that I can't even sleep:

What does it mean
when I speak of "Today"?
Please tell me before
it just raptures away...

Oooh never mind I
just heard the twelth chime,
and now it's tomorrow
and I'm rife with sorrow:
Today is now gone
and I've got to move on.
But wait what is this,
I think something's amiss...
Did someone just say
that now this is "Today"??
Again? What is this??
How can you insist
that "Today" is the same
as the day I just missed???
___________________________

Please feel free to comment. Free-style discussion is welcome and encouraged.
But no darts. Please don't throw darts or any other sharp objects at each other

[jandros]

The first two-thirds of the poem could be considered a lesson of its own ... i.e., what not to do ... don't be shy, just say what you feel

[safe1]

sad....

[jandros]

Hmmm ... is it sad because the poetry is really terrible?

Thanks for commenting. Yes it is meant to be sad in a sense, but not on the surface. But you went right to the heart of it?

[safe1]

Hmmm ... is it sad because the poetry is really terrible?

Thanks for commenting. Yes it is meant to be sad in a sense, but not on the surface. But you went right to the heart of it?

I always do...

[Frankie Jasmine]

Just found your poem, jandros. I have found poetry (mine) to be thus: Humorous on the surface and the pain underneath; that is because I often express myself from emotional pain. . . . However, I am pleasingly surprised at a light tone (as said, "surface," that emerges), and I feel much better afterwards. But . . . as has been addressed, the underneath definitely is darker than the surface.

I want to come back to this. Your poem is good, quite enjoyable to read, with an occasional left-hook. I love the unexpected things thrown in (that is, the narrator's casual jive makes it sound 'thrown in.'); for example, the 'circus with no tigers or bears.' Boy, that really speaks to my gut.

Still, I think I'm missing something, and I don't have time to ruminate. Would you say the poem is a riddle ? Thank you for starting this; it's a good idea!

[jandros]

Hey Frankie, and first off I'm embarrassed to say that it took me more than 3 weeks to notice your post ... may I just blame it on the new site format and I still don't know where to find some of the more handy site tools?

But to get to the point, yes it is a riddle so to speak, and my philosophical answer (to whatever-the-philosophical-question-is) lies just before, within, and after the 4 isolated lines .....

Now this is the thing
that doth blister and sting
my conscience so deep
that I can't even sleep:

What does it mean
when I speak of "Today"?
Please tell me before
it just raptures away...

Oooh never mind I
just heard the twelth chime,
and now it's tomorrow
and I'm rife with sorrow:
Today is now gone
and I've got to move on.

... In plain English, what I was trying to say is, very simply, don't waste "Today" because (of course) it is time-limited, and it will never happen again. Always try to take full advantage of whatever opportunities (to do something "good" or not do something "bad") and whatever responsibilities present themselves. Because we may never have the same opportunities again. And missed opportunities (or mistakes and so forth) are exactly the things that can "foster congestion" and "relentless confusion" (and assorted "contusions") that can make us "so dREARy"

But "the thing that doth blister and sting" is worry ... or maybe guilt? ... from too many Todays that have gone before, and are now gone for good, with opportunities unrealized, unresolved, missed, or mishandled.

But, also, being sure to "move on" will (hopefully) give us other opportunities, because tomorrow will always be a new "Today" ..... In the grand scheme of life, "It ain't over till the fat lady sings."

And the very end of it, as well as I can remember anyway, is frivolous rhyme, just winding down and groping for a closure

All in all, this was just a lot of fun to write!

[jandros]

Actually this is a teeny bit more complicated than I remembered immediately, I realize as I read back over it.

Undue worry and relentless confusion can cause paralysis, which is quite often the worst thing that can happen ... being afraid to do something that is difficult, or maybe to try something new, or maybe even to try to undo or repair a wrong that was done before. And in the last case, each Today that is wasted can make a bad situation worse and worse.

But also to get right to the heart of another example, the best cure (or treatment) for depression is to get up and move, rather than continue to be overcome by circumstances, or time, as in wasting time worrying that Today will end, knowing it will end, and we know we can never stop Today from ending, and becoming unchangeable history, as will the opportunities of Today ... thus possibly creating more failure (or a stronger sense of failure), and thus feeding the relentless cycle of debilitating depression ... those most-dreary feelings of powerlessness, motionlessness, and hopelessness.

[jandros]

And there are other secondaries ... for example, the way this begins is an irony, or a mistake, in that I'm asking someone else for an answer that may already be right in front of me.

Sometimes I get a little irritated with people who never seem to have any confidence in themselves, or in some way they always want to deflect responsibility to others, whereas sometimes the only solution to a problem or situation is here, right here in our own hands. Today is our today, not someone else's, and so is the opportunity, and so is the responsibility. And deflection or avoidance will often become "the day I just missed".

[Sanmayce]

The Curious Haze of Yesterdays

Can anyone tell me
the answer to this?
If you can resolve it
then don't be remiss
in setting me straight
before it's too late.
Just answer this question
that fosters congestion
in my feeble brain...
It drives me insane
to not know what is what
and thus untie the knot
of relentless confusion,
life's biggest contusion
of unsolved mysTEERy,
it makes me so DREARy!!
I just cannot breathe
till someone can relieve
this torment of despair
that denies me of air
and diverts me of purpose
like some stupid circus
with no tigers or bears,
oh my soul so despairs
of the simplest of truth,
for shame and forsooth!
I think I will die
if I cannot rely
on my dear sweetie friends
to bring this to an end.
A conclusion. Ablution.
Distinct resolution.
Now this is the thing
that doth blister and sting
my conscience so deep
that I can't even sleep:

What does it mean
when I speak of "Today"?
Please tell me before
it just raptures away...

Oooh never mind I
just heard the twelth chime,
and now it's tomorrow
and I'm rife with sorrow:
Today is now gone
and I've got to move on.
But wait what is this,
I think something's amiss...
Did someone just say
that now this is "Today"??
Again? What is this??
How can you insist
that "Today" is the same
as the day I just missed???

I like it, it's good.
Reminds me two things:
- The finale mood of Lewis Carroll's Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland;
- the proverb: 'You cannot enter the same river twice'.

And to return the riddle back, I am nasty at them and not like you (giving hints):
How many types of 'Time' exist?
By chance I know the number, but I will keep it for myself since it is not worth sharing it. And after all the world is far more complex than we can imagine/fathom.

I recall an interview with C. Castaneda in which he plainly had stated that one of the very happiest moments in his life was when he FELT the time 'Infinity' IN FRONT OF HIM.

I hope this got you thinking how serious are the simple things like your 'Today'.

[Frankie Jasmine]

Let's get this thread going again. Everybody can use a little more wisdom and wise-cracking!

[Sanmayce]

Hi Frankie,
a good step from your side but the host/threadstarter is no longer around.
It seems to me that you are hungry for some philosophical food/discussions, however keep in mind that I am a nasty phobosopher - I mean my style of talking about serious things is too aggressive and most people get easily offended.

[Frankie Jasmine]

Hi, Sanmayce! No, I did not know that you are a "nasty phobosopher." I have never met anyone before who had "a fear of knowledge" or a "fear of abstract knowledge." Although I will agree that far too much time, effort, and too many words have been wasted on empty philosophy!

Perhaps you are not a phobosopher in the strict sense, since you posted a C. C. quote mentioning "infinity." Infinity is an intangible, and phobosophers live based upon tangibles.

My fellow-ATLer Sanmayce, I'm afraid you have mistaken my posting of a thought-provoking statement as a 'hunger for philosophical food and discussion.' Also, I would be interested to read others' posts of "random philosophical sayings and assorted chaos."

You mentioned being "too aggressive." I welcome assertiveness; but I am uncomfortable with aggressiveness--that is, if you meant that in the literal sense and not in a joking way.

You may be right on this count: Perhaps this thread was simply to discuss Jandros's post--and I mistook it to be a place for anyone (including you or me) to post "random philosophy and other assorted chaos." It rather sounded like a casual thread . . .

Maybe someone can clarify, because Sanmayce may be onto something about the originator--this may be Jandros's thread/post exclusively for his poem/riddle . . . ?

[Sanmayce]

Frankie, good to see that you approach things from different angles.
Becoming a victim of one's thoughts or rather accumulated knowledge i.e. to fall into trap of "wisdom" is what I avoid. For philosophers (wisdom lovers, he-he) that is guys loaded with wisdom I am their nemesis their nightmare simply because they are playing under the sun talking in delusional way not wanting (it is not a mere stupidity or vanity but a defensive mechanism 'protecting' them of facing their own fears) to explore the sunless side of life i.e. the night-time.
>I'm afraid you have mistaken my posting of a thought-provoking statement as a 'hunger for philosophical food and discussion.'
Don't be, I provoked back just to keep the game going, he-he.
>... but I am uncomfortable with aggressiveness--that is, if you meant that in the literal sense and not in a joking way.
Yes, that is the goal and appearance of being aggressive. And I meant it both in the literal and figurative way of speaking - the choice is yours, something similar to saying to somebody 'brother you are fat' - in first case it sounds (to him if he denies to face the ugly truth) as an offensive remark in second as a warning (if he is truthful enough to regard this statement as a friendly concern not fault-finding) to take care of his health.

Let us see what SOED holds for 'philo'/'phobe':

philo-, combining form.
[Greek, from philein to love, philos dear, friend: see -O-.]
Used in (esp.) adjectives and nouns formed in and after Greek, and as a freely productive element, with the sense 'loving, inclining towards, having an affinity for'. Cf. MISO-.

-phobe, suffix.
[French from Latin -phobus from Greek -phobos fearing, adjective ending from phobos fear.]
Forming adjectives and nouns with the sense '(a person) fearing, disliking, or antipathetic to', as agoraphobe, ailurophobe, Francophobe, hydrophobe.

In my view (at least my usage) you are talking about sophophobia where the accent is on fearing while phobosophy I see as hating/disliking (not fearing) wisdom, anyway I am careless of digging for exact definitions since the Greek words for like/dislike are pretty well-established.

I observe a strong trend people to fear to express themselves freely, so I doubt your wish for open discussion getting fulfilled.

[Frankie Jasmine]

QUOTED FROM SANMAYCE: In my view (at least my usage) you are talking about sophophobia where the accent is on fearing while phobosophy I see as hating/disliking (not fearing) wisdom,

FRANKIE HERE: Sanmayce, in the latter part of this sentence you have summed it up! This is what I was perceiving; but the definition I knew of predicates "fear*." The hating/disliking of wisdom is what you projected and I perceived, precisely!

* (The following was my understanding. However, I realize that what is of import is not what word/name is used, but what you describe yourself as.)

φοβία > phobia / φοβια- > phobia- = "irrational fear,
φόβος > phobos / φοβο- > phobo- = fear"


σοφία > sophia / σοφια- > sophia- = "knowledge, wisdom"


[ μῖσος > mīsos / μισ- > mīs- = "hatred" ]


So I will continue to use this thread (unless the moderators, who have the right deem otherwise, object) to post bits and beads of "random philosophy and other assorted chaos." And I will look for the same from others.

If I understand you correctly (because I do like to learn), then if you post, you would be posting "assorted chaos." Is that accurate?

The closest thinking I've come across to what you describe is existentialism. Is that akin to phobosophy?

Please be aware . . . I don't wish to provoke aggression. However, should you decide to respond, your direct, succinct answers will help my understanding of you and your meaning, to the degree I desire, of something [hatred of knowledge] with which I am unfamiliar.

[Frankie Jasmine]

[Frankie Jasmine]

[Frankie Jasmine]

[Sanmayce]

Frankie if you wanna play with me maybe it is better (for you) first to take a cold shower (literally), then you will be able to FEEL a significant part of what I was talking about.
Your thoughts will be ... cool, seriously/literally/figuratively.

>The closest thinking I've come across to what you describe is existentialism. Is that akin to phobosophy?
No, existentialism is another type of philosophy. I didn't want to torment you by not explaining straightforwardly, so here a hint for you: phobosophy is an undefined term (now defined kindly by me) denoting/connoting the disgust of all non-simple artificial/false systems-of-belief/thinking with an unspoken accent on loving unSOPHIsticated ways of life i.e. embracing the dark side without judging what is wisdom what is not - the fatal mistake of all wisdom lovers.

Bob Marley's wisdom is part of this cheap philosophy intended to cheer you up with some pseudo-positivism or rather false-positivism.
I don't believe (and don't take heed) what such UNEXPERIENCED people have to say.
In my view it is bad style to pile up slogans without giving your own thoughts.
I disregard such "wise" men as Einstein/Marley and others.

Please finish the sentence:
Ignorance of our bright side only causes ...

[Frankie Jasmine]

Dear Sanmayce, the sentence you told me to complete will be unanswered by me. I do not wish to "play the game" you propose.

However, you've worded things kindly and respectfully to me, and I appreciate that. Hopefully you have perceived my respect also for your autonomy, your right to have and express your thoughts, and to hold your way of viewing things.

Additionally, you have answered questions to help me understand what you beileve (kind of like 'phobosophy for dummies, condensed version'! ). I appreciate that you answered my queries. Thank you.

A few things you wrote seem contradictory, to me. Nonetheless, the majority seems clear, if I understand the basics correctly from you: (Your perceived ideas and actual words in bold typeface)

* Phobosophers (such as yourself) hate philosophy and are anti-philosophy/accumulated knowledge to the extent of expressing hatred/disgust of philosophy/accumulated knowledge.

* In expressing your hatred of philosophy/knowledge, you become the "nemesis" and "nightmare" of those who express philosophical sayings--to which this thread is dedicated.

* Expressions by you on this topic are, by your own words, "aggressive" [and by nature with a purpose to make others uncomfortable]: "That is the goal and appearance of being aggressive. And I meant it both in the literal and figurative way of speaking--the choice is yours." (direct quote)

* You, as a Phobosopher, embrace "the darkness," "the sunless side of life," "the nighttime."

* Philosophers or those who live by, promote, or post such ideas are: "delusional, victims of their own thoughts, avoid their own fears, are artifical, with false systems of belief/thinking, engaging in cheap philosophy, pseudo-positivism, and are in denial, promote false positivism, and are fatally mistaken. [Any posts of] philosophy are made by UNEXPERIENCED people--e.g., Albert Einstein/Marley, others." [Of course, these are your descriptors, made at various times, here placed all under one set of quotes. They are accurate to your quotes, I think.]

* You find it "bad style to post others' views without one's own."

_ _ _ _ _

Regarding the choice you extended to me, as follows (gleaned from your posts in part or in whole):

Expressions by you [Sanmayce] on this topic are, by your own words, "aggressive" [and by nature with a purpose to make others uncomfortable]: "That is the goal and appearance of being aggressive. And I meant it both in the literal and figurative way of speaking--the choice is yours." (direct quote)


I must respond, fellow ATLer Sanmayce: "No. The choice to be aggressive (in the literal and figurative way of speaking) or not to be aggressive--is yours."

As stated, now--with more information about yourself and 'phobosophy' as you define and describe it--I have chosen not to "play the game with you," as you term it.

However, I will post "Random Philosophy and Other Assorted Chaos" as I come across sayings (that to me are truthful/clever), with which I agree; and that I believe to be in harmony with the idea of the originator of the thread and on topic, according to the moderators.