In focus @ATL/tv channel by Orwa

[Maviii]

Dear ATL Members/Family,

Have a great day everyone.
I am here to present to you all
This thread which is a new program In ATL /TV channel,

The idea and the creator /announcer of this program is Orwa
so am just the one who will produce it as i am the TV channel moderator

And special thanks for istanbulgal & moderator Layla for supporting and helping



Description of the program ;



"It's an international program that will address many
worldwide issues and will also allow everyone to tell us his/her
thoughts and ideas about the topics that will be discussed.
The purpose is to have an informative, interesting, fun and respectful
dialogue with all our friends in a type of discussion forum atmosphere."


How it goes :

Every Monday Orwa will select a member,
who will be in charge of choosing and announcing
a new theme as well as moderating (hosting) the show.
Some of the responsibilities will be to introduce us to the new theme,
start and end the discussion by providing questions,
provide feedback and keep the discussion friendly.
The show's first theme will be announced and moderated by orwa .

"At the end of each week's discussion, we will vote for
the top 3 answers and then the moderator (orwa ) will
select the winning answer".

voting grades :
the first answer ==15 point
the second answer== 10 points
the third answer == 5 points

p.s / all of these description of the program
and rules may have edition anytime... so be patience everybody =)


so there will be a theme picker


voting for best three answers ...


==================================

Rules :


1. Everyone will get a turn at being a moderator;
no one will get a 2nd turn until everyone has had a turn first.

2. This is going to be a weekly show, so you have 7 days
[Monday to Sunday evening] to comment and share your experiences.

3. Most important of all is to keep the discussion friendly & respectful.
If you disagree with a member, you can voice your opinion respectfully,
if you're not sure, pm the moderator and/or don't comment.

4. Express yourself clearly, vulgar language will NOT be allowed.
In this respect, forum rules should be followed at all times.

5. Serious information exchange is expected, if you're not familiar
with the subject being discussed, please refrain from commenting,
unless it is to ask a question or add to the discussion.

6. Everyone will have a small part of his answers to say
some improvements or ideas.


=======================================

ladies and gentlemen stay tuned ...
this program is ....

[Maviii]

Revision on the the subjects that has suggested and focused on:

First theme : Education
theme picker : Orwa

second theme: free time
theme picker : layla

third theme; Social responsibility
theme picker : Damarys

[Orwa]

Dear ATL..., Our 1st theme is Education:



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The subjects of the theme is...

1- What's the definition of education from your point of view?? Do you think it's useful in our days in most of countries?

2- When you call a person "well educated"??, what is your understanding of this phrase?

3- What steps should governments take to make education better & more affordable to all?

4- Do you think education feeds people, today & in future??

5- A lot of people say that if young people are educated well, crime and murder numbers would decrease, do you agree with this statement and if so, why??

6- What is the difference between Information and Education?

7- What do you think of the teaching process & status in general in your own country?

8- What would you like to change about the education system of your country?

9- Did you have any personal experiences with your teachers/professors?

10- How important is education to you in comparison to your parents? Do you agree with them and vice-versa?

11- How can we show our children that education is important?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The closing date of 1st edition is next sunday (May, 17, 2009)

Our next week theme picker is "LAYLA"



PS, Those above questions/subjects is just to give some examples for the theme & to open up discussion ideas, but everyone can select any questions he/she want to answer., even you can post questions by yourself

[istanbulgal]

What a fabulous thread, but I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, who posted the theme of Education, was it Orwie or Layla?. Just kidding Orwie!

I only have a few moments now, but I thought I would just introduce my thoughts regarding the subject & will be back for further discussion. First I want to say congratulations for coming up with such a thought provoking thread, kudos to you!

I know the focus is 'academic education', but education is so much more, it does not begin at Kindergarten, it begins at birth & ends only upon death, it has several purposes & objectives. In the context of formal education, it simply means acquired knowledge and intellectual development & it is most definitely useful. Having said that, it is true that there are/have been many individuals, who have not had a formal education and not even completed grade school, but became very successful & even self-made millionaires because they had the innate ability to process knowledge & not to mention hard workers. The reality is that the academic environment is not for all & it does not motivate nor work for everyone, but it does not mean these individuals are not educated, far from it, in fact, I consider them far more educated than those with PhD's.

For me, a 'well educated' person is not necessarily someone with a degree or specialized knowledge, rather, it is a person who possesses (general) knowledge, who is informed, has critical & rational thinking abilities, questions things, adapts to the ever constant changing environment, ie: does not get stuck in the past, is kind, tolerant, respectful and the list really is endless, so this question has a never-ending answer. As Mahatma Gandhi said, "knowledge without character" and "science and technology without humanity" are sins.

I'll be back....

[MaresLejanos]

1- What's the definition of education from your point of view?? Do you think it's useful in our days in most of countries?
Education is the foundation of knowledge, it is the process where we develop the knowledge, skill, or character of something. It's supposed to be a tool for the future, it's supposed to create people who think by their own, it's supposed not just that It has to give us knowledges, but it has to teach us how to learn from them that are given to us, it has to teach us "how to learn", but learn means how to think too, learn means to have the skill to relate a new knowledges with some others related. Education shouldn't teach people "it's this way", Education should teach people how to read between lines, how to look for information, how to discard useless information or information from a source in doubt, how to create our own criterium about some subject.
There are subject like Maths where "2 + 2 = 4" and it's a fact, but about History, the History is written by the winners, and so many details, and in some cases the Truth, is hidden to us. They should teach us that there isn't an absolute truth, what is written in a book is what it was supposed that happened, but it doesn't mean it is true, and it's good to read about the same subject from diferent authors and create our own point of view about.
Education makes a big difference in life. Education gives us a tool to can fight for our future; between two people, one with an university career and the other one without it, the first one has more chance to find a job, a good job and with good pay (I can see it everyday around my life). Of course, talking about two people without other way to have money if not from a job, without other income, not own business, land or whatever; If there are two people in this situation, without any other income than the income from a job, the one with university career will have more chances in most of cases.
I think secondary school is even very important, because there you can get a lot general knowledges that give you a general screenshot of the world, history, life, etc, those that help you to understand manything that could happen, or to put you in the correct place while listen to news.


As Ayn Rand said: “The only purpose of education is to teach a student how to live his life-by developing his mind and equipping him to deal with reality. The training he needs is theoretical, i.e., conceptual. He has to be taught to think, to understand, to integrate, to prove. He has to be taught the essentials of the knowledge discovered in the past-and he has to be equipped to acquire further knowledge by his own effort.”


2- When you call a person "well educated"??, what is your understanding of this phrase?
In my case "bien educado" in Spanish has another meaning different to school Education. You can have people with or without school and who are very well educated (normally very polite people), and you can have people who has not just an university career, they have more than that, some post-tittle, and they aren't a well educated people (I've had a boss who have a Master Degree in Physical, but for me he was one of the most impolite, selfish and bad person I've ever met).
A well educated person is first: one who respect others' rights, opinion, religion, idiology, who doesn't try to impose their point of view, who is able to listen to and to understand the other's idea, even when they disagree. Second, a well educated person is who is able to understand that we all are human beings, and we all could make mistakes, not one, not two but many times, and don't react in a violent way because of other's misake.Third, a well educated person has to understand that we aren't all the same, each one of us has our own way: "because I see it's blue, it doesn't mean that the other has to see it blue too", "because I don't like it, it doesn't mean the other has to not like it too", "because I behave this way normally, it doesn't mean the other will behave the same". We are the result of our life experience, we can agree or disagree in so many subject, but it doesn't mean we are right and the others are wrong. A well educated person know it, accept it and behaves in concecuence, discussing in a peacefulway, exposing their point and listen to what the other has to say or what the other think.
Of course, there are extremes: If I see somebody else killing, stealing, punching someone, lying, or whatever, since my point of view the person is not a good person, the person is behaving very bad and not polite at all... But I'm fogetting the other person's background, where they have grown, what was taught to them. I can't pretend to call "bad educated" to slumdog person, because in their world their behavior is normal, they are just surviving.
I do think a bad educated person is the one who knowing something is wrong, they do it any way. So this is very general for me. I can say "fulano" is a well educated person or bad, just if this "fulano" is in the same condition as me. Has lived the same as me, has learnt the same as me, has the same social level as me, and has had the same oportunities as me... But even though, I could be wrong, because of course, I don't know all about this person and their life story.

3- What steps should governments take to make education better & more affordable to all?
First: stop hungry.Malnutrition affects the brain, and it's proved. A child who doesn't receive all the necessary nutrients for the body, has their learning skill significantly reduced.
Second: A good "free" Education should be guaranteed by the government, primay, secondary and university Education.
The state must guarantee to its citizens health, education, justice and work. There isn't a chance to access to a any kind of Education without an "equal opportunities" (Igualdad de oportunidades). Every person in a country has to have the same right as others (in theory, but just in theory, it's this way), every person has to have the chance to have a decent work to can pay the place where they live, to can feed them and their children, to can dress them and their children, to can buy everything that is necessary in a normal life, every person has to have the chance to go to study, whether in a state free school, or paying for it.
It is totally unacceptable that young children are begging in the streets instead of being in school learning and living their childhood. It's for sure the State's fault in any country, but it's our fault as well, because we, those person who know it's wrong don't claim for their rights. Sadly, most of them ignore it, they don't know it's their right to can have a good job, to can have a good heatlh system, to can have a good education, because of their poverty made them to don't go to school, and then they don't know what rights belong to them. It's their life style, and they don't know they should have the same chances as other to have a good job and a good education. So it's a infinite circle, their are in the street, they don't have the chance to study, that makes them survivors, they live in a place where you have to kill before get killed, you have to steal if you want to eat, and with all of this it's impossible to them to can go school, because State doesn't guarantee and give them Education and a job.
So first, give work to the parents, so children don't have to be begging in the street and they could be learning in a school. This job, also give to the parents the possibility of feed their children, that helps in a normal develop of the children.
Second, State should guarantee a free education in all levels for every one. Private Education can exists, but it's not supposed to be the only one, or if there are just private education, then everybody has to be able to pay it for their children.
The greater the social divide is, there are fewer opportunities for education for all, the less chance that people take that is for them by rights. We must reduce the social divide, and it's just could be true by given equal opportunities for all. While this difference exists, there will be children who do not go to school to form themselves.

4- Do you think education feeds people, today & in future??
Education doesn't feed people, but gives the chance to the people to can be feeded. Today the people who have had the chance to study, have now the opportunity to feed them and their children, but there are a lot of people who don't have education and now they don't have a job, or if they have, they don't receive enough money to live well.
I hope in the future it will be better, but sadly, I don't see it will get better. All people in a country should claim it to their government, and then then maybe it could be change.
Mariano Moreno has said: "El pueblo no debe contentarse con que sus jefes obren bien; él debe aspirar a que nunca puedan obrar mal. " : "The people should not be content with their heads held well, they must aspire to the heads never be able to do bad".

5- A lot of people say that if young people are educated well, crime and murder numbers would decrease, do you agree with this statement and if so, why??
I do, at least I'm sure the crime will reduce. In this city, the government is doing a social experiment, to insert aboriginal in society. They took a big group of Tobas, one of the aboriginal races here. They were living like animals, almost. And the government in this town is teaching them even how to use the bathroom, how to cook and use the kitchen in an appropiate way, how to keep the house tidy and cleany, and of course their are teaching them many other things that will help them to find a job, like electricity, masonry, carpentry, locksmith, etc. And it's working. The people who's working is this project is very wondered about, they didn't think it was going to work. If they could change the normal behavior of these people by teaching them those stuffs, then by educating people we could have change their behavior and customs, and then it could mean less crime. Just teach them what is bad and why it is bad. teach them respect to the other person, teach them how to respect the other's life, teach them how to respect the other's work, teach them how to respect the other's things (because this other person has worked a lot to can buy what they are stealing), and first at all: teach them an office to let them defend themselves and ear money by working. Teach them the importance of gaining the life in a honorable way, working hard to get whatever they want. And teach them that their rights just finish when the others' rights start.
Teaching them it all, you will have a society with less crime.

6- What is the difference between Information and Education?
Information is just the sum of many data related, but it doesn't teach you nothing at least you have received the enough eduaction to can understand and analize the information. Information by its self doesn't have any sence, if you're not able to understand what the data in it mean. And education needs information's data. Information will always exists, but it doesn't mean it will have sense for a person who's receiving it, as least the person has the studies to can understand it.

7- What do you think of the teaching process & status in general in your own country?
I have to confess that in my country, the State is trying to keep the people the most ignorant is possible. They are ruining education, by not paying to teacher and profesors, so children and university student almost don't have classes, many people got tired of it and leave school, or university. And even worst, a teacher who's bad payed, doesn't have the will to teach, and because of the same fault of the Education System, the student don't want to study, don't want to learn, don't understand what important it is. Education in Argentina has fallen far. The government want ignorant people, because they are easy to handle, they give them a hot-dog and a coke and they will vote them. I've seen it since 20 years ago, I've seen how the State was ruining the Education System and how they handle this people buy giving them little gift. So, one important point is: the government have to want people being educated. Of course, it's my country, I'm talking about a too corrupted country, and I don't think it's this way in any other country of the world.

8- What would you like to change about the education system of your country?
First, I would change all the people in the government for honest people!!!!!. Second, I would re-write the programs, more complete. If you see the difference in program in primary and secondary school, comparating private education and free one, you could have an a hard attack. I would change the programs for the older ones that my mother and father had, but of course with all the new themes/subjects.
I want the teacher as Institution again, I want the student respect teacher. Nowaday, teachers are annoyed by student, they insult them, they even punch teacher!!!!. The parents of the student don't respect teacher, so do the children. There is a big difference between private and free school, teachers from free school are afraid every day to go to school. It's happening specially in big cities like this one, I'm not sure if it's happening in other towns. Teachers can't give the class because the students don't want to learn and less to listen to the teacher.
So I could go back to the punishment system again, not fisical, but by sanctions and suspended.
I need respect from the student to the teachers and a better plan of each subject.

9- Did you have any personal experiences with your teachers/professors?
I had a teacher who hated me in fact, long story. But it was rare, because most of them loved me because I was a good student, and I behaved well...
But in university I have had some teachers that I'm really glad for their dedication, they taught me a lot of things that I'm using right now at my job. And those were people of System Area, so they just don't teach what is was in the books, they thaught us from their own experience, and it's so good, because in someway they were teaching us with what we were going to deal with in the future and how to deal with them.

10- How important is education to you in comparison to your parents? Do you agree with them and vice-versa?
My parents both, started a university study, but for life's reason they had to leave. They always thought that a University Education is the only legacy they could leave to us. And I do understand them and I do agree with them. It's a pity that I haven't finished, but it's never late to finish. I know I'm too tired to study right now, I almost don't have time, but I would love to finish it as soon as possible. Maybe I should try to finish, not because of them, but because of me.

11- How can we show our children that education is important?
Life its self will show them. I can see it very clear, I see it even between my my relatives, those who didn't finished secondary school, and those who passed for university and those who finished university. The kind of job, the amount of salary is very different.
You can face them to the reality, wich is cruel for a child, or you can just explain it simple: if you study you have more chance to have a job, to have a good job, to have a better salary than the one you should have if you don't study.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, since it's not my language I'm not sure if I could express my self well. Even It's a hard subject to write, it's just hard talk abaut it. When I'm discussing this with my friend or realtives millon of things come to my mind about, but I can't say them all, and I alway forget to say something important... So while writing, it's worse, for sure I have forgetting a lot of thigns , and even I could write what I wrote bad and hard to understand, and maybe I could be missunderstood.

[istanbulgal]

I have touched on point #1 and #2 in my post above, however, as this is a week long show, I will discuss these 2 points further now that my amiga Mares has entered the discussion before moving on to others as there are too many points to discuss all at once.

Mares said: "it's supposed to create people who think by their own, it's supposed not just that It has to give us knowledges, but it has to teach us how to learn". I could not agree more, that should be the fundamental teaching of all schools, to teach us HOW, rather than what to think. Critical thinking is essential in preparing the student for success, especially for the disadvantaged ones as not everyone will succeed academically, this is a fact, so teaching a curriculum that would foster these elements & ideals, would also go a long way towards making the system a more egalitarian one and in doing so, it would give more people the ability to succeed in 'real' life, so I agree with you Mares that "Education is the fighting tool for a better future".

With respect to the 2nd point, I agree with all the points you made regarding what it means to be educated & it coincides with all my beliefs as well, after all, what good is an educated person, if he possesses no character, compassion, values and integrity?? It is thereby not surprising why employers these days, for non-specific jobs, ie: not requiring certain skills & relevant education, look FIRST for character attributes and SECOND for experience; it's a no brainer as most can be trained & experience can ge gained on the job as well, but character problems are difficult to deal with & also difficult to change.

"I'm not sure if I could express my self well". Yes, you absolutely did!

I'll be back...

[Orwa]

@Istanbulgal, First, i wanted to thank you for coming to here, and for your support fot his thread.., i appereciate your help.
I do agree with your thoughts regarding to the theme.., yes, there're a million person arrived to the success and they haven't even finished the formal education.., but i do not think everyone can be like these people.!
Those people started a difficult life.(For sure), and they tried to success., i do believe it was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO DIFFICULT for them.., but with HARD working, they arrived!
Let me just say, if they was like any normal person finished the formal education and finished UNI., they will go to the general life and find a normal job., and stuck in it until forever., and then the retire and stay in home as every normal person, what i wanted to say is, not everyone can arrive to the best with JUST education., especialy in these days, world became different than past.
And i'll write my comments more in evening

@Mares Lejanos, Dear, I also want to thank you for being the first one join my thread and write the FULL comments!
I read everything you wrote, and here's some comments.

I do agree with you with some points, but tell me, what's the history will do for our children or for us??, i aksed myself many many time, Why there's history and WE should study it??!!??, person to success doesn't need to read or know about history, they just teach that someone killed other.., and then the GREAT blah blah do that and this..., all of this won't help us.., so i can say that the education is a 4 subjects (Math, Language, Chemistry and Physics), everything else they taught us was INFORMATIONS!!!

plus, as you said, teachers don't care about childrens for two reason, Government don't pay a good salary for them.., and classes now has at least 40-50 person, so the teacher CANNOT hear to childrens and childrens can't hear the teacher as well, so here's a HUGE problem i think

Look, actually these day we can see many DOCTORS who graduated from GREAT UNI. and they do not foind any job.., and some people who doesn't have any education, and they work very well, so from my point of view, education can give the chance to feed people with 40% ONLY, but the most important is the hard working...!

maybe i'll have some more comments Mares..., but i am off for now.., i need to go to lunch..!

Thanks again my dear..

@All, i'll write what i think of education on evening (I HOPE)

[MaresLejanos]

Thank you Istanbulgal and Orwa. I have to go work, but I want to write something fast right now, to Orwie:

History is important, very important, in Spanish I've heard many times: "Un pueblo que no conoce su pasado, está condenado a cometer los mismos errores del pasado en el futuro" -> "People who do not know their past, are doomed to repeat the same mistakes of the past in the future".

I'll be back later to read and comment.

[Orwa]

@Mares, that what i said, HISTORY is JUST informations, myabe it might help governments, but not people, actually i studied history sooooo much, but it was very boring + i don't believe in what it says!

When i told you, on 237482942th century someone has built the pyramids and they stayed 10000000 year and 5723 person died while they are pulling the stones, and the hight of the biggest pyramid is blah, and weight of each stone is blah5523423424 kgs!!!!!
AND THEN??, after you LEARN this and COPY it in your mind JUST only to write it in your exam paper???, what's the thing which you got there???, i answer, NOTHING

Another example, they told you, the person who dicovered the north America is blah, and he did that, and then UK take people to there., and then they bring people from Aferica to blah etc...
What's then??, what's the new thing which you got??

I do not believe in History, it's just some information to be known about the past, but it doesn't feed or even increase your salary

btw, i will say a thing and you may disagree with, tell me, do you use ALL theories you studied in math??, or even do you remember any of them??
but here i'll say they taught these theories for everyone, engineer and doctor, Designer and manager, so that the only thing which made me don't speak about math!!

I hope you understood me..., cuz i tried to read above and i didn't understand any word lol

[MaresLejanos]

Originally Posted by Orwa

@Mares, that what i said, HISTORY is JUST informations, myabe it might help governments, but not people, actually i studied history sooooo much, but it was very boring + i don't believe in what it says!

When i told you, on 237482942th century someone has built the pyramids and they stayed 10000000 year and 5723 person died while they are pulling the stones, and the hight of the biggest pyramid is blah, and weight of each stone is blah5523423424 kgs!!!!!
AND THEN??, after you LEARN this and COPY it in your mind JUST only to write it in your exam paper???, what's the thing which you got there???, i answer, NOTHING

Another example, they told you, the person who dicovered the north America is blah, and he did that, and then UK take people to there., and then they bring people from Aferica to blah etc...
What's then??, what's the new thing which you got??

I do not believe in History, it's just some information to be known about the past, but it doesn't feed or even increase your salary

btw, i will say a thing and you may disagree with, tell me, do you use ALL theories you studied in math??, or even do you remember any of them??
but here i'll say they taught these theories for everyone, engineer and doctor, Designer and manager, so that the only thing which made me don't speak about math!!

I hope you understood me..., cuz i tried to read above and i didn't understand any word lol

brb later, but I have to tell you I have used all math I have learnt in secondary school, and even more. I've needed all math I'd learnt in many subjects, and those subject's knowledge are the ones I use everyday in my work. Secondary school is supposed to teach you general knowledges about a lot of different topics. What you need of them depends of what are you going to do when you left school. And if you want to, all those general knowledges are useful to know if somebody else is lying to you about something (a silly example: somebody tells you that human being has 2 heart, if you have never studied at school, you could believe such a big lie... ).

Believe me, never rest to know a little of all. You have to know a little of all, and you have to know a lot of what you need about your work.

brb... I'm working

[MaresLejanos]

Between Orwie, I feel like a broken record, all the time saying the same , but anyway:

The main purpose of secondary school is to give you general knowledges about a lot of very different topics. Those topics just don't feed your brain and your wisdom, some of them, depending what are you going to study can help you. If you are going to study Chemical Engineering, all Maths, Physics and Chemistry are going to be useful as knoledges base of the career. If you are going to be a Doctor, Maths, Chemestry, some Physic's knowledges, Anatomy and Biology are going to be very useful for you while studing Medicine. If you are going to be a Veterinarian, same as Medicine. If you're going to study Philosophy, history and languages are going to be very useful for you. And so on... Depending what are you going to do, some subjects will help you while studing at University, and school has to give a great base of knowledges of different things, that it just don't help you in University, but helps you to chose a career some times.

Now, regardless of this, "El conocimiento(saber) no ocupa espacio", wich means "Knowledge (wisdom) does not take up space", so your brain will never get full of knowledges, and believe me the more you know, the more you don't regret of learning; it becomes to a easy task to learn something.

I remember my self when the teachers in secondary school gave us too many page of a book(about 20) to read for an exam... I have complain so much about. But when I was at university, just the next year of secondary school, I have had to study a completed book just for one exam!!!!, and them, I didn't complain anymore, I just knew I had to do that, otherwise I was going to fail.

Believe me when I say "every little knowledge is important", either because you could need it, or just because it makes you a littler more wise. The more you know, the more you have the skill to understand, the more you are able to relate things or events. And I know it by experience, and not just mine, I have seen people who started studing a University career while being over 40, some over 50, and they have changed a lot their mind and behavior, but changed for good, they have now another point of view about a lot of things, and even they can now understand things they didn't understand before...

brb... need food.

[MaresLejanos]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

Mares said: "it's supposed to create people who think by their own, it's supposed not just that It has to give us knowledges, but it has to teach us how to learn". I could not agree more, that should be the fundamental teaching of all schools, to teach us HOW, rather than what to think. Critical thinking is essential in preparing the student for success, especially for the disadvantaged ones as not everyone will succeed academically, this is a fact, so teaching a curriculum that would foster these elements & ideals, would also go a long way towards making the system a more egalitarian one and in doing so, it would give more people the ability to succeed in 'real' life, so I agree with you Mares that "Education is the fighting tool for a better future".

With respect to the 2nd point, I agree with all the points you made regarding what it means to be educated & it coincides with all my beliefs as well, after all, what good is an educated person, if he possesses no character, compassion, values and integrity?? It is thereby not surprising why employers these days, for non-specific jobs, ie: not requiring certain skills & relevant education, look FIRST for character attributes and SECOND for experience; it's a no brainer as most can be trained & experience can ge gained on the job as well, but character problems are difficult to deal with & also difficult to change.

Thank you lady . It's nice to know there are people who thinks like me... Some times I feel I'm the only one who think this way and the rest of the world think different.. then I feel too strange, or maybe I'm wrong.

Education is my Achilles heel, this subject is driving me crazy. Not just because I think everybody has to have the chance to study, or because I think it's a tool for the future for any person, but because I think that the only way to change the current society to a better society, with a better respectful behavior, is by educating people. I'm really sad and hopeless about this country, because I know the only way to change it for better is by educating people, and when I see how the government is trying to ruin the Education I feel like there is not escape from it, and it seems be going from bad to worse. So no hope at all.
In somehow, I know too that in school you can make "well educated people", by teaching good principles, by teaching respect. A silly, but not that silly example is: when I was in primary school, very young, my teacher taught as to don't throw garbage (basura) in the street, to throw it in ther recipient for it, or if there is not one close, to keep it in my pocket or bag till I find one. So, since I have memory (almost) I always keep the trash with me if I don't find the correct place to put it... And maybe most of my school mates do the same. But you come to this city and you see people throwing trash to the street, even when they have at their side the correct place to it. It was thaught to me to give my place in the bus when a old person get inside, or a woman with a baby, or a pregnant woman. I always give my chair, but you can see here how nobody does, how some people pretends to be sleeping to don't give the place... It's soooo annoying!!! And it was thaught to me in my childhood and in my primary school.

So I do think you can make better persons by teaching respect, and other stuffs in the school, but it's not enough with teaching, it must be accompanied with good examples from all. If a child see everybody is doing something in someway, the child will do the same. If what the others do is a good things, well, we will have a future good person who will do good, but if what the others do is a bad thing, we probably will have a future impolite and selfish person.

Now I'm arriving to the conclusion that Education is important, but not just the education giving by the school or university, the education given in home and given by our behavior as example.

[istanbulgal]

I love this discussion! Mares, no worries, you and I will make Orwie a Historian by the end of this theme.

Orwie: I have to agree with Mares that History is very important, it is in fact, VITAL because:

It gives us knowledge/wisdom
it gives us a window into our past & roots & we can continue our traditions/cultures that way. Ask yourself, who would you be today without history?.
It helps us learn from our mistakes & avoid making them again (granted that humans don't seem to be fast learners in this regard), and not only learn from our 'own' mistakes, but also from that made by the rest of the planet,
it helps us shape our present & future,
it is entertaining, without history, how boring & empty would life be?? I really cannot imagine it.

You are right that not everything written in books is correct, there will always be false history recordings, lessons & even pure fabrications, some write/teach opinions & flat out lies, but it is important to separate history from opinions & only by reading a lot will you be able to distinguish the truth. You say that you don't care what happened thousands of years ago, but you say that because you are still very young and have not discovered yet the real value history does play in ALL our lives. You are very practical in your thinking and that is not a bad thing either, but dear, you cannot erase history, one day your present will become someone's history and so on and so on....

Mares: You have touched once again the subject of the 'mal educado', the bad mannered, disrespectful, rude and plain crude people, I see them everyday, on the street, on the park, at the Dr.'s office, at my office, in the grocery store, really wherever I turn, there they are, from small children to adults, sometimes I think that the only people left with manners are our senior citizens, it is really a mannerless society, where did social conduct go? I hate it, the very young here are the most privileged generation and at the same time the most apathic! But we cannot blame it all on the school system, education after all begins at home.

On that cheerful note, I have to make dinner, I'll try to come back later tonight...

[MaresLejanos]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

I love this discussion! Mares, no worries, you and I will make Orwie a Historian by the end of this theme.

Mares: You have touched once again the subject of the 'mal educado', the bad mannered, disrespectful, rude and plain crude people, I see them everyday, on the street, on the park, at the Dr.'s office, at my office, in the grocery store, really wherever I turn, there they are, from small children to adults, sometimes I think that the only people left with manners are our senior citizens, it is really a mannerless society, where did social conduct go? I hate it, the very young here are the most privileged generation and at the same time the most apathic! But we cannot blame it all on the school system, education after all begins at home.

On that cheerful note, I have to make dinner, I'll try to come back later tonight...

It could be funny if Orwie becomes in a Historian

I do agree with you, education begins at home. But it would be great if school teach it too, just for those cases were the parents of the children don't teach them it. (mmm... It's strange, because if in the school teach you education and in your home dont, what do you learn then?). I think it's a shared responsability, family and school system, both should teach education. What is better to have the same message in both places where you learn?

Friend, I'm sorry I'm sleeping at my chair, just now I realized that I'm doing an effort to can keep my eyes opened. I will go to sleep, but I will come tomorrow
Kisses to you both

[Orwa]

@Maressss, look, i have a different mind than EVERYONE around (I think), i may agree with you about the secondry school, it teach many different things that you may use in your general life, but tell me, now you said, Doctors, Engieneers, Anatomy and Biology doesn't need ANY history, you just mentioned that the Philosophy needs history, hehe, tell me, Why we need Philosophy??, those people who make theories and don't apply it??, who speak about.., "We should be honest, We should blah, we shouldn't blah", and no one hear to them??!!??

In my point of view, history was ONLY pain in the school, it didn't add any new thing to my mind.., yes, i am still young, but it doesn't a matter, you didn't answer, what you get after you studied history??!!??

Plus, in school you NEED to learn it, or you won't be able to pass in exams, & i want to say, each country teachs different history, so what i know is different than what you know, and that what made it not important...
But if we talk about math and other subjects, every country teach the same, that's why it's important from my point of view

@Istanbulgalitaaaaa, I am will Historian????????, hehe, okay, i need to wear glasses and trach the yellow books lol

Well,i just talked about history and you all disagreed with me.., i like when people disagree with me.., (Just to know), And i did not wirte my opinion about educations, hehe, you may kill me then lol

What history helps you M??, Now you're saying the books words which it's, history is important and it help us to know our past, and blah, and blah!
But in general life, did you use history??, what you leanrt??, what mistakes you avoided because of history??

aaa, i won't earse history cuz we need it in some times, but WE DON"T need it in school, what i want to say is, History is just some informations about past, in your WHOLE life you may use history one-two times only!!!

Good night Istanbulgalita (Teacher) & Maresssss

[istanbulgal]

#3

What a great point you touched Mares regarding nutrition, it would help many hungry children if ALL schools around the world were to have a 'national school feeding program' as it has been proven that without proper nourishment, learning is difficult, if not impossible. While some countries have a 'national school feeding program' in place already, here, surprisingly we don't, despite statistics showing that there are many children living in poverty, however, we have a program called "Breakfast for Kids", which is mostly run/supervised by parents, teachers & community volunteers, but surely this is not enough for the needy.

The education system here is divided in 4 parts: S. Kindergarten (mandatory & starting at age 5), elementary, junior high school & high school, this means at least 2 school changes and sometimes 3.

Students who do not enter the work force upon school graduation have 2 choices: university (minimum 4 years) or college, ie: vocational school. Students have to pay tuition fee for both, but the government offers substantial funding to the universities/colleges, so the fee is not prohibitive to any student & financial assistance is available to those who qualify for assistance.

I'm proud to say that we have an excellent education system here, among the world's best and according to a leading magazine, my alma mater, ranks 1st in the "leaders of tomorrow" category!.

I also completely agree that there should be an excellent public education system accessible to all, however, on the issue of free university, I don't exactly agree. I believe that: grants/loans should be readily available to eligible students, scholarships for the deserving/gifted students and that fees should be realistic for all.

Anytime something is completely free, there is always abuse and as a result, quality suffers. I also believe that universities should have control over how it is run without much interference from the government, control which they would surely not have if fully funded by the govt. Also, let us remember that 'the goverment' is us, the taxpayer, and it is just not feasible nor possible for taxpayers to fund the education of every individual, after all, university education is very expensive, universities need an amount that many governments would never be able to fully fund and in order for a university to remain competitive, innovative, have good professors, etc., the institutions need the extra money that can only come from private tuition fees. Another fact is that university is not for all as not every student possesses the academic ability, so why should a taxpayer have to fund it?.

@Orwie: I will tell you another time what history taught me, but now it is super late, I just finished a project, answered one more point here and now, as sweet Mares would say, "my bed is calling me", so good night!

[damarys]

This theme is very interesting. I'm not exactly sure why Orwa picked it. He MUST be at the cusp of new understandings and wants a forum to argue his point. Ha, ha.... just kidding Orwa.

I'm only going to address some questions at this time.... maybe I will tackle the others later.

What steps should governments take to make education better & more affordable to all?

Although I'm furiously independent and somewhat conservative, when it comes to education, I'm a little bit of a socialist. I believe that all governments should provdie the following, FREE of charge:

• *Mandatory education of all children (parents can home school and parents can send the chidlren to private schools but everyone should attend school).
  *Instruction in the basics (reading, writing, arithmetic, science, social studies, music, art, PE and physical education, from age 3 to age 18 or 19.
  *Education for ALL chidlren, including those with disabilities.
  *Government should provide transportation to and from school.
  *Nutritious meals for children in school.
  *Tutoring or intervention programs for children who are having difficulties learning.
  *Parenting classes for parents
  * so many other things... running out of time!

Do you think education feeds people, today & in future??\
Yes!

more later..................................
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

[Orwa]

1- What's the definition of education from your point of view?? Do you think it's useful in our days in most of countries?

From the begin.., i have a different view of education than everyone.., i do not know if i am mistaken or i'll change my mind later.., but now i'll say that: in past, education was everything.., it was the way to the person to be nice.., or at least to be useful to his world.!
And in past it was supported because there was many people want to learn + classes & teachers have the ability to understand & teach.

In past was, who has the high education, can find a job really very easy.., and own much money..!

But now, Education still as important as past, nothing change, but world has changed, people's minds, dealing with high education people.., everything changed

So, the word "EDUCATION" Was and Still nice thing for everyone.., but life changed the meaning of it for many many many people, some "LUCKY" people got jobs after they finish UNI!

In normal school, it's very very important for everyone., at least to know how to read/write/calculate/think/know about nature!
and i want to say, who don't enter the normal school for ANY REASON, even though the economy reason, that mean he/she lost 90% of his/her life, i really feel very sorry for those..!

2- When you call a person "well educated"??, what is your understanding of this phrase?

I call the person well educated is the person who know how to deal with people with all ages, who know somethings about everything.., i don't like those who know EVERYTHING about somethings, those are close minded...

Well educated person doesn't need to be high uni educated., No, it's the person who can stay with a group of people and know about everything they are talking about..!

3- What steps should governments take to make education better & more affordable to all?

Governments is 30% of education for everyone.., it gives the right environment to study.., but it's not everything.., i do not like people when the put the ALL blames on governmetns.., there's 30% for perants and family..,and the rest which it's 40% it would be to the person itself if he/she has the ability to study or not!

Governments should allow to small kids to enter schools at ANYWAY.., at least to finish 6 years in school.., THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!

another thing.., to re-write the programs to be match with the technology in our world now.., i remember they taught us about many many old things that we won't use it now ever!

build much schools and pay more to teachers.., it's very important point., when teacher not get payed much.., he/she won't be able to teach well, students won't understand..!
students are the future, if they didn't teach them.., mean.., they are destroying the future

i have a lot and lot to say.., but well, let's stop here!

4- Do you think education feeds people, today & in future??


No, education doesn't feed anyone.., and i disagree with Mares when she said it gives the chance to feed them!

Education is just a basic of life.., but the smart one who can success.., success in life is very difficult., yes, everyone can live normaly, but not everyone alive that mean he/she is success, NO..

I always say, the result of education you will get it after finishing the UNI.., at that time the person will relize if he/she waste time in UNI or not.., and i will say many people wasted their time there!!

Actually, there's a million student got the HIGHEST marks and they comes to the real life and don't know anything..!

What i am trying to say is.., education is 50% of the job.., but not everything!!!

and as everyone is posting quotes here, i am going to post this quote which i loved soo much, as Monica said "They learn 'theory', but they don't know how to apply that theory in the real world, in the real world one needs to earn money to eat and to earn money, you must know to do something and not just know books. The best is to have theoretical knowledge and practical experience, but most important is how to make money because that is what will put food on the table, one can always read and learn about other things in free time."

That words express everything i want to say

5- A lot of people say that if young people are educated well, crime and murder numbers would decrease, do you agree with this statement and if so, why??

Yes, actually, bad people won't disappear even they studied well, but it will decrease the number of thives and crimes

6- What is the difference between Information and Education?

Information is the thing which well educated person need, need to know somethings about everything..

But education is knowing manythings about somethings..!, and education without information is like a door without knob!, you can imagine how big is the door, but you NEED the door knob to use it!!

==========================================

Maybe i'll be back soon.., but those really...,really KILLS me lol blah blah!!

PS. ah, btw, if you understand nothing.., don't tell me to to repeat cuz i didn't understand what i wrote, okay??

[Orwa]

@Istanbulgal, i don't know if i understood right, but i do agree that Uni should not be for free, Maybe school, okay, but UNI, NOO, if it is, then anyone will enter uni even he/she doesn't have the ability to study!, so i agree with this!!!

@DaMaRyS, ehe, ehe, eheeeeeee, lol, Actually, i liked the theme soo much.., not just because of my point.., because it's really great idea

So tell me, how do you think education will feed people, you just said, YES!!, but how??!!??

btw, i finished the high school and i was still 16, because i entered school early.., and in the country where i was.., they let me to jump one year.., i don't know why..., maybe because i am SMART??, who know..., maybe!!!

[MaresLejanos]

I have something too important to say regards free education, but I have not time, I have to go work. When I'm back I'll develop here my point of view and explain as well my own experience.

brb

[Orwa]

Maressss, I am waiting.., but you didn't mention.., you are going to say a nice thing or bad thing about free education???

Well, we're all waiting to see!!!

[damarys]

I have very mixed feelings about the free university education. I do believe people put more value on things if they have a price. At the same time, some people who are truly gifted may not be able to afford higher education and never get to realize their potential.

I was able to do my undergraduate through scholarships and grants. My grades were good and I was very poor so I received a lot of financial help for my undergraduate degree (bachelors... first 4 years). My master's degree was a different story. No one gave me any money. I had to take out many, many loans and lived in poverty for three years until I completed my graduate degree. I learned a lot from that experience and it made me appreciate my education greatly. It took me many, many years to pay off my loans.

For my doctoral program, I applied for a grant and was selected amongs hundereds of applicants. It is a very generous grant that has helped me pay for classes and books. I'm very grateful and very humbled by this gift for which I feel I am unworthy.

BUT.... even though I have been given money to go to school, I am the one who did the work. I am the one who finished it! The money does not write your papers. The money does not take the exams. I think everyone should be given a chance to attend a university but it is up to the individual to do the work and complete it. Some will not be up to the challenge.

Here in the USA we have "Community Colleges". THey are two year universities that offer prelimenary university classes as well as certificates for careers that don't require a full university degree. If students want to continue at the unversity, they can transfer the credits they have already taken. They do cost money to attend, but are VERY affordable. THis is an option.

There are also trade schools to teach students how to weld, be a nursing assistant, carpenter, etc. They also cost money, but the cost is also very reasonable.

I think some pay is good but to make it unattainable is ludicrous!

[El raisa]

I wanted to post here from the beginning but my time is very tite , so I will write only what I can , I hope to continue later

First I want to thank you Orwa for this great Idea , I realywish to see more Contributions in this thread

You brought a very difficult subject as a beginning !!! , I was very delighted to read the pervious posts & very interested in the discussions !!
I can not begin my speech with a better sentence than this:
(Education is my Achilles heel, this subject is driving me crazy) By Mares
It is the same to me , It is really my country's most weak point !! , you know , after reading you Mares & regarding previous discussions with Citlalli , I find myself more & more able to understand why Africa is seeking for more cooperation & building bonds with Latin America , We are facing so much similar problems based on corruption & ignorance !!

(I'm proud to say that we have an excellent education system here, among the world's best and according to a leading magazine, my alma mater, ranks 1st in the "leaders of tomorrow" category!) By Istanbulgal

I wish to be able to reach 1% of what you got here , We have international education here , the most popular is the British , then the American (It is not applied right while British is easier to apply !!) , also we have French & German , The Canadian education is a new entry , I heard from a friend that it the medium between the British & the American system , She is recommending it strongly .

( when it comes to education, I'm a little bit of a socialist) By Damarys
I can not agree more
Now Let us begin :

1- What's the definition of education from your point of view?? Do you think it's useful in our days in most of countries?
I agree with Istanbulgal & Meres about the answer, It is the process that makes a person able to learn, understand & think .
(it's very very important for everyone., at least to know how to read/write/calculate/think/know about nature!) by Orwa , True this is the mininmum requirements not the optimum

In my opinion , By market defining, Also Education is a method that provide a person capabilities which allow him to be professional at a certain carrier that needs certain qualification, so he will have more opportunist at working & living.
Education suppose to help you discover yourself, and help you to Enhance your natural talent to be more creative & productive , how many brilliant minds are buried under the ignorance !?!..

Yes I believe Education is very important, It is for the benefits for the whole nation not only individuals , this is the main difference between a developed country & a developing one , this is the main tool for any nation that really wants to move foreword .

2- When you call a person "well educated"??, what is your understanding of this phrase?
I know we are talking here about mainly formal education , but I agree with these statements :
By istanbulgal:it is a person who possesses (general) knowledge , who is informed, has critical & rational thinking abilities .
By Mares : who respect others' rights , who is able to listen to and to understand the other's idea, even when they disagree

The above is the main job of education, to creat such personality ,For long time I was wondering , what is the difference between being educated & being cultured ??
The real educated person is also the cultured one, who is capable of understanding what is around him , able to communicate , to create , have values & believes , and very aware of where he is standing & positively prepared to build a future without ignoring his identity .

3- What steps should governments take to make education better & more affordable to all?
(The state must guarantee to its citizens health, education, justice and work , ….State should guarantee a free education in all levels for every one , by Mares
I can not say better than this, also what Damarys said is very specific .
I just want to detail about my country , Government shoud put education on priority , reconsidering the curriculums , they are pushing children to forget their childhood , playing & enjoying , this kills their imagination & make them hate the school .
As Mares , Teachers here are underpaid & not respected by the children.
There are private schools & international schools , but unfortunately this is business not education !!!

in my country ..Education in schools or university is free of charge , for primary school , this is good & It is truly government responsibility , but for collage ..no , the result was that the education level is going down , no Financing , huge number of university Graduates are out there not qualified to the market required acquirements , specially after the free business field we are facing with the globalization ! , while we are facing Inadequate in Craft workers , because youth think that the only future is for university , It is an empty ring !!

Damarys :I liked your post , I totally agree with there should be pay beside scholarships , so who is really gifted has the right to continue as he wants , other wise pay..

@Orwa: for the all subjects you learn at school , I totally agree with Mares & Istanbulgal , also you answered yourself by saying you must know a little pit of everything , scool prepare you to choose what ever you want later , so it is not necessary that you will use everything , but sure the whole matrix will help you to find out what you want , History is part of your identity , whether you agree with me or not , past realy affect the future , we are a part of a serial of human life on earth .


Hope to be back

[damarys]

When you call a person "well educated"??, what is your understanding of this phrase?

I've been thinking about this question quite a bit, which is why it's taken me a while to answer. I'm still not sure if I can express what I'm thinking in a way that it is understood.

I don't think we will all agree on this point. First of all, do the words "well educated" refer to the kind of education you received (Harvard, Stanford, prestigious private schools...) or to the information you actually retain and use?

I know people who received diplomas from very well known universities but they do not use that education and could be considered poorly educated. I also know people who did not finish university training but, because of the way they use the knowledge that they have picked up (through reading or classes), they appear to be highly educated (see Bill Gates as a shining example).

Is a person who scores well on a test highly educated? Is a person who has many degrees highly educated? Is a person who has a lot of facts in their heads (like a contestant on a game show, like Jeopardy), is that person well educated? How about someone who does their job well.... is that person well educated or just a good employee... a good follower of rules?

We will never be able to agree on what that definition because there are so many variables. I have many degrees, so I consider myself educated... something that has been done too me..... professors have poured their knowledge into my head.... I have been assimilated into the world of education. I have chosen to retain some information and to purge other information I considered irrelevant at the time.

I think a well-educated person is someone who has opened their mind to the possibilities in this world and takes these possibilities into consideration when making life decisions. So, there is the part about taking in information, and then there is the part of using the information in a moral, ethical way, to better humanity.

How's that for a long- winded answer? LOL!

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by MaresLejanos

I have something too important to say regards free education, but I have not time, I have to go work. When I'm back I'll develop here my point of view and explain as well my own experience.

brb

brb: I just figured this one out, LOL. Te espero anciosa Mares!

Continuing on university education............

Like I already mentioned above, we all recognize that the gifted and valedictorian students should absolutely receive grants & scholarships & the needy & academically qualified should receive assistance, there should be no argument in educating the talented & deserving students as the education of these individuals would benefit the public at large, but why should I pay for the education of X student whose parents earn a comfortable living?. I also partially contributed to my own education with money I earned during summer jobs, I did not expect the tax-payer to foot the bill. We will also pay for the education of our son and subsidize the needy through higher taxes, private donations, etc., but why should we expect the government to pay for it??. Though educated individuals benefit society at large (after all, we all need doctors, dentists, teachers, historians, etc.), they are the ones that will eventually enjoy the richly deserved high & executive salaries, not the average taxpayer. If I were to pursue a PhD, why should I expect the government to pay for it?. We all have to pay for our own bills, education, for those who can afford it should be paid by themselves. We choose to have children and with it comes the responsibility to provide them with a good education, they are our responsibility, not the government's.

And what I also already mentioned before is the issue of quality, we have a saying, "you get what you pay for", you pay nothing, don't expect the best; you won't get excellence by transferring or expecting the government to take full responsibility.

I will skip to #5 - Crime & Education because of an article that I examined recently on this very subject, written by a Canadian professor in Economics. It's a well written paper, Orwie & others that may be interested, here is the link:

http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/economics/facu...onandcrime.pdf

@Edit:

El raisa said:

1. "For long time I was wondering , what is the difference between being educated & being cultured ?? The real educated person is also the cultured one, who is capable of understanding what is around him , able to communicate , to create , have values & believes , and very aware of where he is standing & positively prepared to build a future without ignoring his identity".

Beautifully expressed in the most cultured way!.

Damarys said:

"For my doctoral program, I applied for a grant and was selected amongs hundereds of applicants. It is a very generous grant that has helped me pay for classes and books. I'm very grateful and very humbled by this gift for which I feel I am unworthy."

These grants are not just given to anyone, they are given to highly qualified individuals & to those that richly deserve it, therefore, you should feel nothing but pride to have received such a gift, not unworthy.

[MaresLejanos]

Well, I'm back, after a long day fo work, English class and book club meeting... I'm kinda tired, I hope to can write what I think clearly, I'm not sure if I can.

I talk about free Education because my own experience. But now I can see clearly the different with your countries. Here it's completely different, believe me.
For one hand, in this country the best Education comes from some State Unviersities: UTN (Universidad Tecnológica Nacional), it's got just Engineering and it's in meany places in along this country; UNR (Universidad Nacional de Rosario), it's got a lot of career and the profesionals from here are considered between the best in their careers; UNL (Univesidad Nacional de la Plata), it's got many careers too and it's considered one of the best as well; UBA (Universidad de Buenos Aires), same as the lastest 3. They are free, and their professionals are really very valuated and appreciated here. Payed Universities here hasn't got a good level, even when they are payed. When I was in the second year of Engineering Information Systems, I had seen more, but really more about the career than one who was studing the same as me in a private University and just finished the fourth year.
Differences between private and public universities over here: private ones are like secondary school, student almost don't study, it's too easy and I know from a Professor of mine who gave classes in both Universities (mine and the private) that they couldn't reprobate more than 20% of the student in an final exam. In the free university we have a plan of 14 units, for example, and it doesn't matter if you just seen 3 units along the year, whatever is the reason, you have to give them all in the final exam, and normally you have to prepare yoruself alone, almost without help of teachers. So when you go there and give a good exam, you really knew the subject.
About the private university that has got the same career as me: I've done 2 final works for two people who have got their tittle with those works, and I was with just the half of the work, and they already had finished the University and the really don't know how to do those works (I got very mad, I couldn't believe they had fibished the 5º year and they didn't had the knowledges of the career that were necessary for the final work). At the same time, I have helped a lot of people of that university with the systems analysis. And I still can believe, but there was one woman that she had got the tittle of Information System Engineer, and she even doesn't know how to manage a PC, she was fired for every work related with System for incompetence, and she had the tittle.
All the people who fails in the state university go to this one and get the tittle so fast. So in this particular country, the private one isn't the best. So here some free universities are the best, and not for nothing people from Uruguay, Chile and Perú come to study in them.

Of course, what you learn depends just of you, you can go to any university, and you will learn just if you want, you can study just to pass the exam, and forget it all after a while, or you can learn it all being concient it's important to your future and even better, you can continue learning by your own those subjects that weren't taught to you.

For the other hand. Here universities doesn't have a campus where the student could live. So people has to study what they have close or rent a flat in the city where the university that has got the career they want is.

In particular case, I've moved to a city 1400km faraway from my home. And my bothers too. My parent rented a flat for the 3 of us. They had to pay the rent, feed us, pay the books and copies, pay the bills, the transport, etc. It could have been impossible to pay University for the 3 of us. But my older bother and I studied at the same university (UTN) and the younger one at UNR. We were studing in ones of the best universities in this country.

Maybe I don't deserve a free education or even payed since I haven't finished the career. But I've had a lot of class mates, most of them from other cities, who did finished it and who couldn't payed for a private one, and many of them are excellent professionals. Ahhh!! Before I forget it, I know too very good professionals from the private one, my ex Project Manager is 26 and he's already Business Director of the company, he started 3 years ago like programmer as me, and he comes from the private university.

I think, at least in this country should be free good universities, with an strict system (as it was before) where the student really has to study, other wise they could be punished or expulsed. But we can't forbide to those who really wants to study to don't do it because they can't pay for a private education. At this moment my career in the private university cost exactly the rent of my flat!!!

I have to confess, if I have a child or children, I will send them all primary and secondary school to a private schools, because sadly, in these levels privates are much much better than the free one.
And in University, it will depends of the level of the universities at that time and it will depends of my income as well.

[MaresLejanos]

Istanbulgal, my friend, I have adquired so many bad customs of chats, sometimes I forget I'm writing ina forum, not in a chat windows: brb (be right back), cu (see you), ttyl (talk to you later), asap (as soon as possible), fyi (for you information), wb (welcome back), l8r (later), and so on... I should try to forget them .

I understand what you and Damarys said about private university. I do agree too that when you're paying for something you appreciate it better. I wish I could say here a private university is good. I just had notice about one private university that is very good: Universidad de Belgrano. But it's unpayble, too expensive, maybe student of that city (Buenos Aires), who lives in their parents house and don't need to rent a flat could pay for it.

I see and understand too, that our difference in opinion here are because we live in different reallities. Here the scholarships are few and are bad distributted (too much corruption here too), and private universities are very hard to pay for most of the half of the population. By the way, one of the best doctors here and who was known by the whole medicine's world, René Fabaloro studied at UBA, one of the best State's University.

I think everybody who wants to study, has to have the chance to do it. And if they can't pay for a university career, state should guarantee this Education, either by free univesities, or by giving a scholarships, or somekind of help (even if it means that the person should retrieve the favor to state once they become profesionals).

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by MaresLejanos

Istanbulgal, my friend, I have adquired so many bad customs of chats, sometimes I forget I'm writing ina forum...

No worries Mares, I knew all of them, except brb.

Mares said: But now I can see clearly the different with your countries. Here it's completely different, believe me".

You are right Mares, we write according to our respective system and experiences. Here, we have public and private schools, but we do not have a 2 tier system in either our university or health systems, it is one system for all.

Universities are considered private in the sense that they are not free, but the government gives all universities partial funding so that in return, the universities can charge students a more affordable fee to the students, so in reality, our university fees are government subsidized, for example if a program costs $20,000 a year, the student is charged about 1/4 of that and the government pays for the balance, as full fees would be impossible for most students to pay. Of course there are cases when even the subsidized fee is not affordable to many students and that is where the grants/loans come in and thanks to generous donations from government, the community and individuals, scholarships are available to all outstanding students.

Certain professions are very expensive, ie: medicine, so after they graduate, they have to repay their loans for many years to come as Damarys pointed out, however, I still say that we are responsible to pay for our own education, but society is also responsible for those who need assistance and for recognizing & rewarding outstanding achievement. Mares: you touched on an excellent point, that of corruption, that is unfortunate & shameful. All those willing to work hard and apply themselves should not be left out regardless of their economic standing, I'm all for that.

Something that annoys me about our system is that criminals can take uni. courses in jail if they so desire and it is all FREE, meaning, we, the taxpayers foot the bill. I paid for my own education & will pay for that of my son, but the criminal got it for free?! Educating & rehabilitating a criminal through courses is one thing, but giving them rights and privileges that should only be extended to law-abiding citizens is totally outrageous.

Orwie said:I always say, the result of education you will get it after finishing the UNI.., at that time the person will relize if he/she waste time in UNI or not.., and i will say many people wasted their time there!!

Actually, there's a million student got the HIGHEST marks and they comes to the real life and don't know anything..!

What i am trying to say is.., education is 50% of the job.., but not everything!!!

Very valid points. It is visible everywhere in society now.

On that happy note I must say good night!

[Orwa]

@All, it's seems like the thread become bigger and we can't catch every post, so if we/i forget anything to say, please forgive!!

@Maresss, Do you believe just now i noticed that you're extrmely wise, i thought you're from those people who know about nothing, but glad to know who are you here!
about the free education, the BIGGEST problem that the private uni only get students from those who don't want to study or who get a bad result in tests and want to enter universty to waste time or..., or....
so SHOULD the private uni will try to make it easy to let people pass!

But i'd say the main problem here is from the government, they should control at least the program of the books, or make it nearly the same to the public one!

@DaMaRyS, after i opened my dictianry for at least 10 times to understand what you wrote, i do agree with most of what you said..
I do agree with you too about the payed education in UNI ONLY, but from my view in schools it SHOULD be free!
In school the kid still don't know anything about the real life, so with some support of perants and teacher the student will become great!

@El-Raisa, thanks for coming to here, i apperciate your post..
i wanted to say, we CAN"T put the all blame on the government, the government are just a little reason, but it's not EVERYTHING.., so when WE talk about how bad of government, we shouldn't forget the family, teacher!
Families also affect the children soo much.., the mother should HELP the kid at homeworks, just help, but there's some mothers DO the homeworks.....
Some teachers don't explain the lesson and then ask the childrens to make homework, and that will made them try to do anything to make it.

@Istanbulgalita, dear, i think you're the one who make this thread breathing.., thank you!

btw, as you said, "for those who can afford it should be paid by themselves", BY THEMSELVES..., some student let perants to pay and then they forget about the UNI., actually, i do disagree with perants who pay everything for their childrens!
Yes, perants should care about them food/education/right life.., but they SHOULDN"T pay for HIGH EDCAUTION.. IF THE CHILD DON"T DESERVE TO GET IT.....!
so now in private UNI.., we see the person who got a very bad marks on high school and he/she wants to be a doctor

Actually, i read (btw, what's the past simple of "READ") some points of crimes & Education, but not everything cuz it needs a thread itself..!!

[damarys]

7- What do you think of the teaching process & status in general in your own country? and .....
8- What would you like to change about the education system of your country?

In the USA, local control is considered very important. Consequently, the idea of national standards is a dream. A secondary diploma in Arizona may require different knowledge set than a secondary diploma in New York. In some states, public schools are funded by a formula that relies on taxing property. So schools found in wealthy neighborhoods have more money than schools found in impoverished neighborhoods.
Also, the requirements for teacher certification vary from state to state.
The education system in the USA needs some work.
However, one thing that does work is that EVERYONE gets a shot at being educated, from 5 years of age to 18/19 years of age. Everyone has a chance to attend a university if they wish. I like that.
I wish teachers were paid better here (same story all over the world). I wish teachers were respected more here like they are in many other countries. I wish all teachers would behave in a way worthy of respect. I wish parents were more involved in their child's education and not expect all learning to occur in schools.
I wish students would come to school physically, mentally and spiritually ready to learn.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9- Did you have any personal experiences with your teachers/professors?

I would not be where I am today if I didn't have teachers who encouraged me and belived in me. I've had a couple of bad teachers but for the most part, I feel I was blessed with awesome teachers all along my career.

Since my parents didn't speak English, our family didn't really know about college or what needed to be done to get to college. I remember my second year of high school when I went to our counselor and asked why some of my friends were taking different classes. He said that they were "college bound". I asked what that meant and once I understood, I told him I also wanted to be "college bound". I thank my high school counselor for taking the time to answer my questions and for taking me seriously.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10- How important is education to you in comparison to your parents? Do you agree with them and vice-versa?

My parents were very interested in my education. They made sure I had a place to do homework and had all the materials I needed to accomplish my work. THey were not always able to help me due to language and cultural barriers, but they were my biggest cheering section. My parents expected the best marks and I didn't want to dissapoint them.
My parents made READING a priority. They bought me books and expected me to spend time reading each day. They were good models because I saw them reading regularly. They encouraged individual thought and encouraged curiosity and inquiry.

As a parent, and as an educator, I have high expectations for my children as well. I talk to my children's teachers regularly and attend all school events I can. Homework and studies are first before fun. Also, there is no vacation from learning. So, even though my children get a two month vacation from school every summer, they are expected to continue feeding their mind. The library is visited often and we work on math skills over the summer time (there are some fun websites to keep skills fresh).

Other than that, I do what my parents did....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11- How can we show our children that education is important?

By example.
By exposing them to people who value education as well.
By being the best cheerleader for education I can be.