About Greek grammar

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by xiurell

Ευχαριστώ πάλι Μαρία

¡qué curioso! ¡hermanos con diferentes formas de apellidos!
Estoy estudiando los usos del genitivo y no sabia si era algo oficial o no.

Aquí utilizamos 2 apellidos (el primero del padre y el primero de la madre en este orden)

Gracias, como siempre, por tu ayuda

In my identity card it says "Γκέγκα", in my father's and brothers' "Γκέγκας". But if the male surname is in genitive, then the female remains the same. For example, "κος Παπαγεωργίου - κα Παπαγεωργίου", "κος Νικολάου - κα Νικολάου" etc.

De nada. Cuidate

[xiurell]

Γεια σας

I'm still confused using de pronouns. When we must used them in the genitive and in the acusative forms?


μου δίνει ένα βιβλίο
μου αγοράζει ένα δώρο
σου ανοίγω την πόρτα
πες μου

σε βλέπω
τον βλέπεις

Maybe is because in Spanish we use the same forms (me, te, se, etc..) what is confusing me.

Ευχαριστώ πολύ

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by xiurell

Γεια σας

I'm still confused using de pronouns. When we must used them in the genitive and in the acusative forms?


μου δίνει ένα βιβλίο
μου αγοράζει ένα δώρο
σου ανοίγω την πόρτα
πες μου

σε βλέπω
τον βλέπεις

Maybe is because in Spanish we use the same forms (me, te, se, etc..) what is confusing me.

Ευχαριστώ πολύ

You will believe me if I say that Greeks are confused too? In south Greece (Athens) usually say «τι μου λες τώρα;», while in northern Greece (Macedonia) we say «τι με λες τώρα;». In each region there are specificities, lol. But I believe that the first is right (Athenians are right once again ). I’ll explain you why…

μου δίνει ένα βιβλίο: This phrase means “he/she gives to me a book”
μου αγοράζει ένα δώρο: he/she buys a gift for me
σου ανοίγω την πόρτα: I open the door for you.
πες μου: tell me (say to me)

σε βλέπω: I see you
τον βλέπεις: you see him

On the contrary, if you say με δίνει, you will mean “he/she gives me to somebody else. We only use it if we want to say, “he/she betrayed me” (it’s a slang).
Με αγοράζει means “he/she buys me” and not “he/she buys something for me.
Σε ανοίγω means, “I open you”.
Σου βλέπω doesn’t exist and is totally wrong.
The same happens with του βλέπω.

Espero que entiendas algo… If not, I’ll try to explain it with more details...

[dya]

Originally Posted by maria_gr

Σου βλέπω doesn’t exist and is totally wrong.

So, this construction is not possible in Greek:

Σου βλέπω το σπίτι απ'εδώ.

as an alternative to :

βλέπω το σπίτι σου απ'εδώ.


I'm asking you this because in Romanian the first one is the one we use more. The second one is also used but it's more formal.

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by dya

So, this construction is not possible in Greek:

Σου βλέπω το σπίτι απ'εδώ.

as an alternative to :

βλέπω το σπίτι σου απ'εδώ.


I'm asking you this because in Romanian the first one is the one we use more. The second one is also used but it's more formal.

You probably confuse personal pronouns with possessive pronouns. Xiurell's question was about personal pronouns.

Responding to your question, yes, the first phrase (Σου βλέπω το σπίτι απ'εδώ.) is wrong. Possessive pronouns always define a noun. Το σπίτι μου, ο κήπος μου, ο φίλος μου, το παιδί μου etc.

[dya]

I took the opportunity to ask this question now that Xiurell brought the subject up, but I wanted to have this clarified long time ago.

So, my question was based on the σου functioning both as personal pronoun and possessive pronoun.

το σπίτι σου
Σου λεω

And because in Romanian we have different forms for these two forms(therefore clear as to when to use each of them) and in Greek it is the same form, I was curious precisely about the use of the verb βλέπω. Not about the use of pronouns generally speaking, but about their use for this verb.

As I understood now, this particular verb is not used in Greek in this context, unlike in Romanian where the equivalents of both σου βλέπω and σου λεω(for example) are possible and correct.

Thank you

[maria_gr]

I'm afraid that I can't follow your thoughts...

[dya]

Where exactly have I lost you?

[xiurell]

Ευχαριστώ πάλι Μαρία

If you both are lost... then imagine me

I think for direct object I must use the genitive and for the indirect is the accusative

Is that correct???

Please I need more details

Saludos

[Nira Vancopoulos]

-όπουλο, -οπούλα: βοσκός > βοσκοπούλο/βοσκοπούλα.
This suffix often denotes the son or the daughter of the person indicated by the original: άρχοντας > αρχοντόπουλο/αρχοντοπούλα, βασιλιάς > βασιλόπουλο/βασιλοπούλα, Έλληνας > Ελληνόπουλο/Ελληνοπούλα

I have a cuestion with this. When you used this suffix, the name of the son or the daughter have to be the same of his/her father/mother or could be diferent . for example, if I'll used as my complet name Nira Vancopoúla that means that my mother's name is Nira too?? or this stuff about the last names it's just apply with father's and the suffix only says that I'm his daughter

By the way, when I was reading that I discovered that I wrote wrong my nick , but when I created that name too many years ago (only 3 ¬.¬), I didn't know anything about it ^^U.

Bye ^^

[kat.]

i have just started learning Greek, even i don't have much time with my studies, but everything that u've posted here is soOoooo helpful and u always explain very very excellent, so i just wanted to say a big THANK U, if i have some questions after i learn all of this u have posted i'll ask u
u really are an Angel

Blesses for you
love_<3
kat.

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by dya

I took the opportunity to ask this question now that Xiurell brought the subject up, but I wanted to have this clarified long time ago.

So, my question was based on the σου functioning both as personal pronoun and possessive pronoun.

το σπίτι σου
Σου λεω

And because in Romanian we have different forms for these two forms(therefore clear as to when to use each of them) and in Greek it is the same form, I was curious precisely about the use of the verb βλέπω. Not about the use of pronouns generally speaking, but about their use for this verb.

As I understood now, this particular verb is not used in Greek in this context, unlike in Romanian where the equivalents of both σου βλέπω and σου λεω(for example) are possible and correct.

Thank you

If I understand well, you want to know about the personal pronoun for the verb βλέπω. For this verb, it’s wrong if you say σου βλέπω. If you say that probably the greeks will look at you as if you are an alien or something. You can only say σε βλέπω (=I see you), σου λέω (=I say to you), σου μιλώ (=I talk to you).

Originally Posted by xiurell

Ευχαριστώ πάλι Μαρία

If you both are lost... then imagine me

I think for direct object I must use the genitive and for the indirect is the accusative

Is that correct???

Please I need more details

Saludos

There’s trick to recognize them, but I’m not quite sure if it’s suitable for all the circumstances. Think of a phrase in English and if you have to say to you you’ll use σου and if you have to say just you then σε. For example the phrase I kiss you where there’s not any preposition is σε φιλώ. I want to talk to you in greek is Θέλω να σου μιλήσω etc. Do you get the difference?

Originally Posted by Nira Vancopoulos

I have a cuestion with this. When you used this suffix, the name of the son or the daughter have to be the same of his/her father/mother or could be diferent . for example, if I'll used as my complet name Nira Vancopoúla that means that my mother's name is Nira too?? or this stuff about the last names it's just apply with father's and the suffix only says that I'm his daughter

By the way, when I was reading that I discovered that I wrote wrong my nick , but when I created that name too many years ago (only 3 ¬.¬), I didn't know anything about it ^^U.

Bye ^^

Nira mou, I think that you’re a little bit confused. The things you quoted are about the diminutives. The word βοσκός means shepherd, so βοσκόπουλο is the little boy shepherd and βοσκοπούλα is the little girl shepherd. Άρχοντας means lord, so αρχοντόπουλο is lord’s son and αρχοντοπούλα lord’s daughter. It’s not the name of the kids, but a title. Έλληνας means Greek, so Ελληνόπουλο is the little Greek boy and Ελληνοπούλα the little Greek girl.
On the other hand, there is the surname Βοσκόπουλος (the Greek singer). As I said to xiurell in Greece the daughters of the family take the name of their father but in genitive. Let’s imagine that your father is called Παπαδόπουλος (very common name in Greece), so your surname would be Παπαδοπούλου. So the right form of your nick is Vancopoúlou. But you don’t live in Greece so it’s not a big mistake if you say Vancopoulos cause in English or Spanish there aren’t cases. Take as an example famous Greek women or women that were born in America with Greek origins, Olympia Doukakis, Melina Kanakaridis, Irini Pappas, Nia Vardalos, Natali Fotopoulos etc. In Greek these names would be Olympia Doukaki, Melina Kanakaridi, Irini Pappa, Nia Vardalou, Natali Fotopoulou. Is that clear?

[Nira Vancopoulos]

Nira mou, I think that you’re a little bit confused. The things you quoted are about the diminutives. The word βοσκός means shepherd, so βοσκόπουλο is the little boy shepherd and βοσκοπούλα is the little girl shepherd. Άρχοντας means lord, so αρχοντόπουλο is lord’s son and αρχοντοπούλα lord’s daughter. It’s not the name of the kids, but a title. Έλληνας means Greek, so Ελληνόπουλο is the little Greek boy and Ελληνοπούλα the little Greek girl.
On the other hand, there is the surname Βοσκόπουλος (the Greek singer). As I said to xiurell in Greece the daughters of the family take the name of their father but in genitive. Let’s imagine that your father is called Παπαδόπουλος (very common name in Greece), so your surname would be Παπαδοπούλου. So the right form of your nick is Vancopoúlou. But you don’t live in Greece so it’s not a big mistake if you say Vancopoulos cause in English or Spanish there aren’t cases. Take as an example famous Greek women or women that were born in America with Greek origins, Olympia Doukakis, Melina Kanakaridis, Irini Pappas, Nia Vardalos, Natali Fotopoulos etc. In Greek these names would be Olympia Doukaki, Melina Kanakaridi, Irini Pappa, Nia Vardalou, Natali Fotopoulou. Is that clear?

Yes, that's clear now . Thank you so much, Maria mou, you help me a lot *-*. Efharisto para poly ^^

Bye ^^

[poissonrouge]

what is the difference between min and den?

[maria_gr]

NEGATION

Greek language indicates negation with a modification, negation of δε(ν) and negation of μη(ν). We use δεν when we want to formulate negative opinions (ascertainments, information etc.). On the other hand, we use μη when we want to formulate negative desires (prohibitions, commands, doubts etc.).

Examples: Δε θέλω (=I don’t want)
Ο Νίκος δε θα ‘ρθει σήμερα (=Nikos won’t come today)
Δεν πεινάω, θα φάω αργότερα (=I’m not hungry, I’ll eat later)
Μην έρθεις, δε σε χρειάζομαι (=Do not come, I don’t need you)
Μην πας, δε θα είναι εκεί (Don’t go, he won’t be there)
Μη φύγεις (=Don’t leave)

NOTES:
δεν + indicative
μη + subjunctive/imperative/participle

[poissonrouge]

weeeee euxaristo para poli Maria!

[yiorgos]

Για σας σε όλους.

I have just registered myself in this forum, above all because of this thread, Maria, you're really great.

But I'd like to ask for something: could you tell us some slangs? I mean, not the swearword kind, but that type of word that you seldom find in a dictionary, you know? At the moment I can think of βρε, as something to call someone's attention. I learned it in the appendix of a grammar, and didn't find aithing in my dictionary (that is not such a great thing, nevertheless).

Well, I think is that, for now. Also, I'm from Brazil, and since I started studying Ancient Greek at the University I got totally hooked, and, as someday I'm going to move to Greece, I'm learning the modern language as well.

Keep up the good work, Maria.

[ELADITSA@HOTMAIL.COM]

some extra notes. In order for an american or Englishman to understand the Greek sounds, some need some exaggeration. look at my notes.

Originally Posted by maria_gr

Α, α (álfa) ------>We pronounce it like a
Β, β (víta) ------> We pronounce it like v
Γ, γ (gáma) -------> We pronounce it like g* like gata, garaz. but most have a lighter g sound and sometimes g sounds like y..
Δ, δ (délta) -------> We pronounce it like d* Its translated as Dd but pronounced as th like in the word then, this, that

Ε, ε (épsilon) -------> We pronounce it like e like elephant
Ζ, ζ (zíta) ------> We pronounce it like z
Η, η (íta) ------> We promounce it like i is also e sound, its the feminine e
Θ, θ (thíta) ------> We pronounce it like the hard th as in theatre,
Ι, ι (yióta) ------> We pronounce it like i not exactly, its an e sound. leek neuter tense
also like doctor in ancient Greek Iatros. i (e) ah tros
Κ, κ (kápa) ------> We pronounce it like k
Λ, λ (lámda) ------> We pronounce it like l
Μ, μ (mi) ------> We pronounce it like m
Ν, ν (ni) ------> We pronounce it like n
Ξ, ξ (ksi) ------> We pronounce it like ks (x)
Ο, ο (ómikron) ------> We pronounce it like o
Π, π (pi) ------> We pronounce it like p
Ρ, ρ (ro) ------> We pronounce it like r european r sound not english r sound. it rolls.
Σ, σ (sígma) ------> We pronounce it like s
Τ, τ (táf) -------> We pronounce it like t
Υ, υ (ípsilon) ------> We prononce it like i again e sound. Iphigenia. Both i's are pronounced as e like leek. the e in this word is pronounced as elephant "eh"
Φ, φ (fi) ------> We pronounce it like f
Χ, χ (hi) ------> We pronounce it like h like kh in arabic or ch in hebrew, don't mix this with ch as in chicken. ch or kh is guttural. not as harsh like in hebrew or arabic however. its a lighter gutteral sound
Ψ, ψ (psi) ------> We pronounce it like ps
Ω, ω (oméga) ------> We pronounce it like o

*It's not the exact pronunciation cause english language doesn't have these sounds, but if you hear greek songs you'll understand the pronunciation and the differences with the english letters.

[ELADITSA@HOTMAIL.COM]

Originally Posted by maria_gr

γκ ------> We pronounce it like g in the word game
γγ ------> It's the same with the γκ
μπ ------> We pronounce it like b
ντ ------> We pronounce it like d
τζ ------> We pronounce it like g in the word gender you are right Maria of the translation but Greeks in Greece cannot say joker. they say tzokehr
τσ ------> We pronounce it like ts

αι ------> We pronounce it like e better write "eh" because we