yeees, I always like difficulties in my life. The things that compel me seems attractive to me, like greek and german! German has articles, too
Haha, I like challenges and difficulties too, but in fact I hate german!!! I was learning many many years ago. I remember something, but very little things
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Θα 'θελα να 'μουν ένα φωτεινό αστέρι
για να φωτίσω των ανθρώπων το σκοτάδι,
όταν με αίμα γεμίζουν το ένα χέρι
και με το άλλο το σταυρό κάνουν το βράδυ...
The worst thing in german is pronunciation. It is awful I think.
You're right. It was the only language I was awful in pronunciation. Even turkish pronunciation is easier than german
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Θα 'θελα να 'μουν ένα φωτεινό αστέρι
για να φωτίσω των ανθρώπων το σκοτάδι,
όταν με αίμα γεμίζουν το ένα χέρι
και με το άλλο το σταυρό κάνουν το βράδυ...
I have to say that this thread is really useful and it's great idea! I was learning Greek language for a while but I had to stop because of many comitments I have now! So, I want to ask you if you can translate something for me! That is the text from web site Gold the Club It would be great if someone do this for me because I am coming to Paralia Katerinis on 16th of July so I want to know the program of this club! Thank you in advance!
Yeah I agree with you apollo. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't face with that terrible articles!
Where are you from? Do you know greek?
hehe Seda, u made me laugh about your fight with articles I can understand u coz turkish doesn't have them (but i remember there are some "alternatives" articles in turkish, like bir (a, one) and other suffixes those can work as definite articles and i fought with it too )
My mother tongue, portuguese, has 8 articles (4 definite and 4 indefinite) and i can't understand such "neutral" articles, as greek and german have them
A syllable is part of word and comprises a single vowel or diphthong which may be accompanied by one or more consonants: ό-χι, αη-δό-νι, αρ-πά-χτη-καν, καη-μέ-νος.
For the purposes of syllabification, vowel digraphs and spurious diphthongs count as single vowels: αί-μα, ναύ-της, ά-πια-στος, α-μυα-λιά, για-γιά, γυα-λιά.
In normal speech, spurious diphthongs do not occur after two consonants of which the second is ρ. In these cases the two vowels may be treated as separate syllables: ά-γρι-ος, για-τρει-ά, μα-κρι-ά, χρει-ά-ζο-μαι.
Depending on the number of syllables it has, a word is called:
a) monosyllable, when it consists of a single syllable:ναι, μια
b) disyllable, when it consists of two syllables: παί-ζω
c) trisyllable, when it consists of three syllables: πα-τέ-ρας, τρα-γού-δι
d) polysyllable when it consists of more than three syllables: α-νυ-πό-φο-ρος, α-κρι-βο-θώ-ρη-τος
When a word has two or more syllables, the last syllable is called the final syllable, the second last the penultimate, the third last the antepenultimate and the fourth last is known as the syllable preceding the antepenultimate. The first syllable of a word is called the initial syllable.
In the writing, it is often necessary to start a new line before finishing a word. The word must then be split into parts. But the break cannot be made just anywhere. It can only be made at the point where one syllable ends and the next syllable starts. The division of a word into syllables is called syllabification.
The rules for syllabification are:
1) A consonant between two vowels forms a syllable with the second vowel: έ-χω, κα-λο-σύ-νε-ψε.
2) Two consonants between two vowels form a syllable with the second vowel if a Greek word start with two consonants: λά-σπη (σπίθα, σπέρνω), έ-βγαλα (βγαίνω), κο-φτερός (φτερό, φτωχός), έ-θνος (θνητός), έ-τσι (τσαγκάρης), τζί-τζικας (τζάμι, τζάκι), ύπο-πτος (πτώμα, πτώση), Αι-σχύλος (σχολείο, σχέδιο), ά-φθονος (φθόνος, φθορά).
Otherwise the two consonants are separated: θάρ-ρος, άλ-λο, περ-πατώ, ερ-χομός, δάφ-νη, βαθ-μός.
3) Three or more consonants between two vowels form a syllable with the second vowel if a Greek word can start with at least the first two consonants: ά-στρο (στρώνω), σφυρί-χτρα (χτένι), αι-σχρός (σχήμα).
Otherwise the consonants are separated and the first forms a syllable with the preceding vowel: αμ-βροσία, άν-θρωπος, εκ-στρατεία, παν-στρατιά.
4) Τhe digraphs μπ, ντ, γκ are not divided in syllabification: μπου-μπούκι, α-μπέλι, ντα-ντά, πέ-ντε, μπα-γκέτα, μου-γκρίζω.
5) Vowel digraphs, diphthongs, spurious diphthongs and combinations αυ, ευ count in syllabification as single vowels: αί-μα, νε-ράι-δα, ά-πια-στος, ναύ-της.
The same rules usually apply also to compound words.
Maria, i couldn't understand why and what's the meaning of these words you've parenthesized in the examples u gave us in this post...
Ι see. Yes we can understand which is masculine, femenine or neutral from the endings and the articles. To tell the truth, it's difficult to learn which is masculine, femenine and neutral. Here in Greece I hear many foreign people who learn greek to make mistakes with this. But don't worry greeks too make mistakes. For example, the very common mistake that greeks make is that they believe that the word psifos is masculine cause it ends in -os, but in reality is feminine. I get really angry when I hear o psifos and not the correct i psifos...
The same happens in spanish with the word "agua"... to many people thinks is femine cause ends with "a", so said "la agua" but the correct is "el agua" because is masculine.
So, read that... in greek "o" is masculine and "i" is femine... and the ending "os" generally indicate the verb is masculine?... what ending indicate is femine?
The clases are excelent, I congratulations you , you explain everything very well
This thread has nothing to do with lyrics, but with greek grammar. So if anyone has any questions or wants to learn the greek grammar, this is the best place. (I'm sorry for creating this thread here, but I didn't know where to place it!)
Please don't be sorry.
this is also a part of the lyrics.
keep it coming dear it's never enough.
Yeah I agree with you apollo. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't face with that terrible articles!
Where are you from? Do you know greek?
As maria_gr (Maria THE GREAT) mentioned I'm from Israel.
I'm learning it here. It's a great place to do so, the Friends
here are more then willing to help. And I found that through
the lyrics and songs it's easier.
Yes listening to songs help me while learning a language. As you said, all the friend are willing to help here and because of this I love here soo much. I have good friends, I am happy
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" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
hehe Seda, u made me laugh about your fight with articles I can understand u coz turkish doesn't have them (but i remember there are some "alternatives" articles in turkish, like bir (a, one) and other suffixes those can work as definite articles and i fought with it too )
My mother tongue, portuguese, has 8 articles (4 definite and 4 indefinite) and i can't understand such "neutral" articles, as greek and german have them
But most languages have that kind of indefinite articles, it's not special to turkish, Maybe there are some exceptions in general in turkish but I think it is easier than greek! Your language is good because there are no neutrals, so the one who wants to learn your language will not deal with neutrals!
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" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
Maria, i couldn't understand why and what's the meaning of these words you've parenthesized in the examples u gave us in this post...
Lessena mou, I put these examples only for the pronunciation and not for the meaning, but If you want to learn it, then i suppose that i have to make a list. I'll translate them and i'll post it here.
__________________
Θα 'θελα να 'μουν ένα φωτεινό αστέρι
για να φωτίσω των ανθρώπων το σκοτάδι,
όταν με αίμα γεμίζουν το ένα χέρι
και με το άλλο το σταυρό κάνουν το βράδυ...
I have to say that this thread is really useful and it's great idea! I was learning Greek language for a while but I had to stop because of many comitments I have now! So, I want to ask you if you can translate something for me! That is the text from web site Gold the Club It would be great if someone do this for me because I am coming to Paralia Katerinis on 16th of July so I want to know the program of this club! Thank you in advance!
Psonja mou it says that the site is under construction. I cannot translate anything now... I'm sorry
__________________
Θα 'θελα να 'μουν ένα φωτεινό αστέρι
για να φωτίσω των ανθρώπων το σκοτάδι,
όταν με αίμα γεμίζουν το ένα χέρι
και με το άλλο το σταυρό κάνουν το βράδυ...
The same happens in spanish with the word "agua"... to many people thinks is femine cause ends with "a", so said "la agua" but the correct is "el agua" because is masculine.
So, read that... in greek "o" is masculine and "i" is femine... and the ending "os" generally indicate the verb is masculine?... what ending indicate is femine?
The clases are excelent, I congratulations you , you explain everything very well
Bye
Yes, it happens and in "mano", "tema", "alma", "problema" and many other words.
So in greek there is a category of exception in which the femenin end in -os like "i psifos", "i odos" etc.
I'll say later more about nouns cause i have a scedule in my mind and i don't want to ruin it...
__________________
Θα 'θελα να 'μουν ένα φωτεινό αστέρι
για να φωτίσω των ανθρώπων το σκοτάδι,
όταν με αίμα γεμίζουν το ένα χέρι
και με το άλλο το σταυρό κάνουν το βράδυ...
In every word with two or more syllables, one syllable is pronounced with more emphasis than the others: παιδί, γράφω, άνθρωπος, σιδηρόδρομος, μήλο, ναύτες.
A small mark called accent is written above the vowel in this syllable. The accent which is used is the (ancient Greek) acute: κήπος, γερός, αγαπούμε.
Monosyllables are generally not accented.
Within a word the accent may occur only on one of the last three syllables: αγαπώ, αγαπούσα, αγαπούσαμε.
This rule also applies to words with a diphthong or spurious diphthong, such as νεράιδα, εννιάμερα, βράδιασε. This is cause a diphthong constitutes a single syllable, and a spurious diphthong has two vowels only on the paper.
Base accent
In words that are inflected, the accent does not always remain on the same syllable: ο άγγελος – του αγγέλου – τον άγγελο, η μοίρα – των μοιρών – τις μοίρες, δένω – έδενα – θα δεθώ.
The base accent of nouns is the accent of the nominative singular (ο άγγελος);of adjectives, the accent of the nominative singular masculine (ο ωραίος); Of verbs, the accent of the first person singular of the present indicative (δένω).
*Prior to the orthographical reform of 1982 three different written accents were used: the acute (´), the grave (`) and the circumflex (~). Today the acute is used in place of all of these accents.
These three marks indicated exactly the same kind of accent, that is, which syllable in the word received the most stress. In ancient Greek, however, there was a difference between them in pronunciation. Ancient Greek accents were musical. The acute accent indicated a rising tone, a grave indicated the absence of a high tone and the tone first rose and then fell on a vowel with a circumflex accent (´`)
Orthography rules of the monotonic system
An accent is written on every word that has two or more syllables. This applies even when a word appears to be a monosyllable following elision or apocope, but not when it loses its accented vowel through prodelision:
a) The accent is retained on words which appear to be monosyllables following:
Elision: λίγ’ απ’ όλα, πάντ’ ανοιχτά, είν’ ανάγκη, ήρθ’ εκείνος, μήτ’ εσύ μήτ’ εγώ etc.
Apocope: φέρ’ το, κόψ’ τους, άσ’ τον etc.
b) When a verb form loses its accented syllable through prodelision, the written accent is not shifted back to the preceding word: μου ‘φερε, τα ‘δειξε, να ‘λεγε, θα ‘θελα, μου ‘πε, που ‘ναι (but πού ‘ναι) etc.
Monosyllables are not written with an accent.
a) Forms exhibiting synizesis (two vowels pronounced together as a single syllable) are regarded as monosyllables and remain unaccented, e.g. μια, για, γεια, πια, πιο, ποιος – ποια – ποιο, γιος, νιος, (να) πιω. Note the difference between the followings: μια – μία, δυο – δύο, ποιον – (το) ποιόν, το βιος – ο βίος.
b) Monosyllabic imperatives, even when followed by two enclitics, are not written with an accent: πες μου το, δες του τα, βρες τους την, φα του τα etc.
The following exceptions are written with an accent:
a) The disjunctive conjunction ή (“or”): Ή η Άννα ή η Μαρία.
b) The interrogative adverbs πού (“where”) and πώς (“how”) are written with an accent in direct and indirect questions: Πού πήγες; Δε μας είπες πού πήγες. –Πώς σε λένε; Μας είπε πώς τον λένε.
Πού and πώς are also written with an accent in cases such as the following: πού να σου τα λέω – από πού κι ως πού – πού και πού – αραιά και πού – Τους έστειλες το γράμμα; Πώς! – Πώς βαριέμαι! – Κοιτάζω πώς να τα βολέψω.
Που and πως are written without an accent when they are not interrogative (Που when it’s a relative adverb, pronoun or conjunction, and πως when it’s a conjunction), e.g. Αυτό που σου είπα. Μας είπε πως τον λένε Βασίλη.
c) Weak forms of the personal pronoun (μου, σου, του, της, τον, την, το, μας, σας, τους, τα) are written with an accent when there is a possibility that they may be read as enclitics: ο πατέρας μού είπε (=the father said to me), but ο πατέρας μου είπε (=my father said), η δασκάλα μάς τα έδωσε (=our teacher gave them to us), but η δασκάλα μας τα έδωσε (our teacher gave them).
But when there is no possibility that a weak form of the personal pronoun will be confused with its corresponding homophone enclitic, it is written without any accent: γιατί μας τα λες αυτά; (why are you telling to us these?) - τι μας έστειλες; (what did you send to us?) - όταν μας τα έστειλες (when you send them to us) – η δασκάλα που μας έστειλαν (the teacher that they send to us) etc.
Monosyllables coupled in pronunciation with any person or number of verb forms μπω, βγω, βρω, ‘ρθω
An accent is written on the final syllable of a proparaxytone word when it carries the accent of a following enclitic: ο πρόεδρός μας, χάρισμά σου, άφησέ του το etc.
An accent is similarly written on the first of two enclitics that are preceded by a paraxytone imperative: δώσε μού το etc.
Naming of words after their accented syllable
According to the syllable on which they are accented, words are described as:
a) Oxytone – final syllable accented:εμπρός, γιατί, τα μικρά παιδιά.
b) Paroxytone – penultimate syllable accented: τρέχω, δρόμος.
c) Proparoxytone – antepenultimate syllable accented: άνθρωπος, γυμναστήριο.
*Historical note – The conventional form of the written language prior to the orthographical reform of 1982 included the use of the two brethings, the rough breathing (‘) and the smooth breathing (’).
In Ancient Greek the difference between the two breathings was significant. The rough breathing was used quite early to represent an aspirate sound like Modern Greek [χ] without the tongue touching the palate (bot unlike Enlish [h]). This sound occurred mostly before the initial vowel. A smooth breathing indicated the absence of a rough breathing.
Accent position
Accents are written in the following positions:
a) Single small vowels – above the vowel: εγώ, τιμώ.
b) Initial capital vowels – in the upper position and to the left of the capital vowel: Έλληνας, Ήπειρος, Όλυμπος, Έβρος.
c) Diphthongs – above the vowel that is pronounced with greater emphasis: νεράιδα.
d) Vowel digraphs, the combinations αυ, ευ and spurious diphthongs – above the second vowel: πούλησα, αύριο, είμαι, εύλογος, πιάνω, μοιάζω.
Unaccented or proclitic words
Certain monosyllables are pronounced so closely with the following word that they have no accent of their own. Examples include articles, weak forms of personal pronouns, many prepositions and particles. These monosyllables are called unaccented or proclitic words.
Enclitics
Certain monosyllables are pronounced so closely with the word preceding them that their accent is either not heard at all (το βιβλίο μου) or is heard on the final syllable of the preceding word, which thus acquires a second accent (το τετράδιό μου).
Monosyllables which lose their accent in this way or transfer it to the final syllable of the preceding word are called encltics.
The common enclitics are the monosyllabic forms of the personal pronoun: μου – με – μας, σου – σε – σας, τος – τον – τοι – τη – τες etc.
The disyllabic pronouns τονε, τηνε are also enclitic. Certain trisyllabic verb forms can also become enclitic when their initial vowel forms a diphthong with the final vowel of the preceding word: σαν να ήτανε – σαν να ητανε.
Although they may give the impression of being accented on their antepenultimate syllable, proparoxytones with a spurious diphthong on their final syllable do not acquire a second accent: τα χωράφια μας, η αρρώστια σου, έννοια σου, - but: βοήθειά σας, το βασίλειό μας. In some instances both pronunciation can occur: τα δάκρυα σου – τα δάκρυά σου, με τον άγριο σου τρόπο – με τον άγριό σου τρόπο.
The accent of an enclitic:
1. Is transferred:
a) To the final syllable of the preceding word when this is accented on its antepenultimate syllable: ο πρόεδρός μας (σας, τους).
b) To the preceding word when this is also enclitic and is itself preceding by a paroxytone: φέρε μού το, δώσε μάς το.
2. Is lost when the preceding word is accented on its final or its penultimate syllable: το φως μου, η χαρά μου, να τους, τα δώρα του, οι φίλοι σας.
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Θα 'θελα να 'μουν ένα φωτεινό αστέρι
για να φωτίσω των ανθρώπων το σκοτάδι,
όταν με αίμα γεμίζουν το ένα χέρι
και με το άλλο το σταυρό κάνουν το βράδυ...
I was learning many many years ago. I remember something, but very little things
