Questions about English language & grammar

[damarys]

To be more clear i'm actually translating a poem from arabic to english, it's informal (colliq) arabic the original line with the meaning:
i didn't miss you, no, and i'm not longing for you now, you know why? cuz you are with me in every minute of my life..
so is it still should be writte with same tense?

That is helpful. I think in this context it is probably correct the way you wrote it. I just have a couple of very small corrections at the end of the phrase. I would love to see the entire poem when you are done.... sounds beautiful.

I didn't miss you, no, and i'm not longing for you now. Do you know why? Because you are with me every minute of my life.

[jandros]

Hello incriptedtruth, and welcome to the English topic
As Damarys said, I'd love to see the finished poem too ...

[incriptedtruth]

Thank you damarys you've been great help
Hi jandros, thanks for welcoming
and sure i'll post the poem once i'm done..i'd love to have ur openion and corrections for my translation
thanks alot

[damarys]

You are welcome, incriptedtruth! And I want to join Jandros in welcoming you!

[incriptedtruth]

Thanks damarys!
here is the whole poem. it's kinda a dialogue between girl and boy

Her
I didn't miss you
No, and I'm not longing for you
Do you know why?
Because ,every minute of my life
You are with me
Do you know what's the difference
between you and me?
I love you with all my heart
And you hurt me with all your heart
And worst of all
You are the destiny for me
Him
I didn’t hurt you
And so much I need you
Do you know why?
Because you are the light in my sky
Since you gone
life is so strange
after you( without you), where shall I go?
And wound are all over me
And worst of all!!
If I ever lost you
I would lose life with you

Remember me
Let me cross your mind
Since your eyes are forgetting me
In this life of you I live
And life worth nothing without you
Since you gone, everything is against me

sorrow and loneliness are all with me
But I didn't hurt you

Hope you like it, and waiting for ur notes

[damarys]

Beautiful, as I thought it would be. Thanks for sharing it!
I added a few suggestions for fluidity, just translating the meaning because, unfortunately, something is always going to be lost in the translation. I hope you don't mind. Great love story. AND you did an awesome job translating it.


Her
I didn't miss you
No, and I'm not longing for you
Do you know why?
Because ,every minute of my life
You are with me
Do you know what's the difference
between you and me?
I love you with all my heart
And you hurt me with all your heart
And worst of all
You are the destiny for me (You are my destiny)

Him
I didn’t hurt you
And so much I need you (and I need you so much)
Do you know why?
Because you are the light in my sky
Since you gone (Since you left of Since you've been gone)
life is so strange
after you( without you), where shall I go? (Where shall I go after you are gone? or Where shall I go with out you?)
And wound are all over me (I am wounded all over)
And worst of all!!
If I ever lost you
I would lose life with you (this doesn't make sense.... "I would lose my life without you? or maybe My life would be lost without you?

Remember me
Let me cross your mind
Since your eyes are forgetting me
In this life of you I live I live in this life of yours
And life worth nothing without you (and life is not worth living without you)
Since you gone, everything is against me (Since you are gone, everything is against me)

sorrow and loneliness are all with me (sorrow and loneliness are all around me)
But I didn't hurt you

[incriptedtruth]

Thanks for corrction, which brings me to the following question which has been bothering me for long..i've read somewhere that it is acceptable sometimes to break the usual sentence order for rhythmatic purpose, and sometimes i've come cross something like that through my readings soo how correct is that..? i would really like to know
thanks again

[damarys]

That is correct. Poetry is very forgiving of spelling and grammatical differences. There are many different types of poetry (as you know); it is meant to be an expression of the individual. The writer may write in his own dialect, which may not be standard English, and may use words such as 'ain't' (for isn't), 'cause' (for because), or play on words in phrases, either to rhyme or to communicate a specific feeling.

BUT, your word order should still be able to communicate effectively. That is, sometimes a change in word order may change what you are trying to say completely, so one needs to be careful and stay true to the meaning of the writing.

ee cummings did not use capitalization or care much for punctuation. Here is a sample of his work (notice the parentheses out of nowhere and for no apparent reason):

(and i imagine

(and i imagine
never mind Joe agreeably cheerfully remarked when
surrounded by fat stupid animals
the Jewess shrieked
the messiah tumbled successfully into the world
the animals continued eating. And i imagine she, and
heard them slobber and
in the darkness)
stood sharp angels with faces like Jim Europe

..... and another poem by ee cumings

2 little whos

2 little whos
(he and she)
under are this
wonderful tree

smiling stand
(all realms of where
and when beyond)
now and here

(far from a grown
-up i&you-
ful world of known)
who and who

(2 little ams
and over them this
aflame with dreams
incredible is)

[incriptedtruth]

now i get it,
so i can say: in this life of yours, i live?.. i mean when i change words order punctuation must be added i guess, am i right?
thaks for the examples, new thing to me tho
i haven't read contemprary poetry, i guess i need to go for it now..most of poetry readings were classics.

[damarys]

Yes... you can say "in this life of yours, i live" in poetry. You would not use that grammatical form in conversation, but in poetry, anything goes.

There are many wonderful contemporary poets, but ee cummings would not really be considered contemporary anymore, since he was born in the late 1800s. He is more in the group with Robert Frost and maybe Walt Whitman.

Here is MY FAVORITE ee cummings poem, just to show you that he does make sense some times (LOL!):

i carry your heart with me by E. E. Cummings

i carry your heart with me(i carry it in
my heart)i am never without it(anywhere
i go you go,my dear; and whatever is done
by only me is your doing,my darling)
i fear
no fate(for you are my fate,my sweet)i want
no world(for beautiful you are my world,my true)
and it's you are whatever a moon has always meant
and whatever a sun will always sing is you

here is the deepest secret nobody knows
(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;which grows
higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide)
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)

Also, my favorite contemporary poets are Maya Angelou and (for fun... because I work with children) Shel Silverstein.

We should have a thread on poetry!

[incriptedtruth]

Yes... you can say "in this life of yours, i live" in poetry. You would not use that grammatical form in conversation, but in poetry, anything goes.

There are many wonderful contemporary poets, but ee cummings would not really be considered contemporary anymore, since he was born in the late 1800s. He is more in the group with Robert Frost and maybe Walt Whitman.

Here is MY FAVORITE ee cummings poem, just to show you that he does make sense some times (LOL!):

i carry your heart with me by E. E. Cummings

i carry your heart with me(i carry it in
my heart)i am never without it(anywhere
i go you go,my dear; and whatever is done
by only me is your doing,my darling)
i fear
no fate(for you are my fate,my sweet)i want
no world(for beautiful you are my world,my true)
and it's you are whatever a moon has always meant
and whatever a sun will always sing is you

here is the deepest secret nobody knows
(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life;which grows
higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide)
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart

i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)

Also, my favorite contemporary poets are Maya Angelou and (for fun... because I work with children) Shel Silverstein.

We should have a thread on poetry!

OMG is that poem for him? i heard it on the movie( in her shoes) and stuck in my memory ever since, i really love that piece
iheared alot about maya angelo but never read aything for her, to be honest the last thing i remember reading could be considered ancient poetry( T.s Eliot- and Lird bayron... amongest my literature studies

thanks alot for suggestions , u infact encouraged me to approach poetry reading once again

[damarys]

Here are TWO of the best of poems by Maya Angelou (best for me... because they speak to me).

I know why the caged bird sings

A free bird leaps on the back
Of the wind and floats downstream
Till the current ends and dips his wing
In the orange suns rays
And dares to claim the sky.

But a BIRD that stalks down his narrow cage
Can seldom see through his bars of rage
His wings are clipped and his feet are tied
So he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hill for
The caged bird sings of freedom.

The free bird thinks of another breeze
And the trade winds soft through
The sighing trees
And the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright
Lawn and he names the sky his own.

But a caged BIRD stands on the grave of dreams
His shadow shouts on a nightmare scream
His wings are clipped and his feet are tied
So he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings with
A fearful trill of things unknown
But longed for still and his
Tune is heard on the distant hill
For the caged bird sings of freedom.
-------------------------------

Phenomenal Woman

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.
I'm a woman

Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

[jandros]

This is nice discussion about poetry, and Damarys, e. e. commings is one of my old favorites! I love his totally unorthodox style, and I think a lot of his poetry can actually make sense if one can keep the mind nimble and unencumbered

[MAHA]

hi my nice teachers
i have missed u . it is so long .
hi handrose . hi damary
how r u doing. thanks dears for answering my questions . i dinot have time to read them and reply to u . i am going to l read them in details: )
about ditroit, i hezared it is a village . is it correct ???. is there a universtity there???
my freind jadrose, thanks for the links . but can u post more pictures of it . i tried but i didnot find any

[TheNuttyOne]

Detroit ... a village?

Detroit used to be a very big and important city



Since 2000, Americans started buying more foreign cars (Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen) and less American cars (Ford, Chrysler, General Motors). The American car companies have a lot of their factories around Detroit. Less cars sold - less jobs. Unemployment in Detroit is 30-40%. Detroit in the last two years has become a very depressing city: declining population, high crime etc

[incriptedtruth]

Here are TWO of the best of poems by Maya Angelou (best for me... because they speak to me).

I know why the caged bird sings

A free bird leaps on the back
Of the wind and floats downstream
Till the current ends and dips his wing
In the orange suns rays
And dares to claim the sky.

But a BIRD that stalks down his narrow cage
Can seldom see through his bars of rage
His wings are clipped and his feet are tied
So he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hill for
The caged bird sings of freedom.

The free bird thinks of another breeze
And the trade winds soft through
The sighing trees
And the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright
Lawn and he names the sky his own.

But a caged BIRD stands on the grave of dreams
His shadow shouts on a nightmare scream
His wings are clipped and his feet are tied
So he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings with
A fearful trill of things unknown
But longed for still and his
Tune is heard on the distant hill
For the caged bird sings of freedom.
-------------------------------

Phenomenal Woman

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.
I'm a woman

Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Thanks for sharing, I know why the caged bird sings touched me deeply!
certainly its different from what i used to read( with coplets, rhyms ..etc) but i enjoyed reading it and i would love to have recomendation for other schools if you can..i'm more interested in metaphysical school so if you know any contemp metaphysical writers i would appreciate ur help

i have question..in poetry, or in writing in general, when you symbolises using objects refering to human, would you use pronouns for objects or for human? example
Moon= woman& sun= man do i refere to them by ( it) or (s/he)( her-him),(his-her)?

[MAHA]

Detroit ... a village?

Detroit used to be a very big and important city



Since 2000, Americans started buying more foreign cars (Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen) and less American cars (Ford, Chrysler, General Motors). The American car companies have a lot of their factories around Detroit. Less cars sold - less jobs. Unemployment in Detroit is 30-40%. Detroit in the last two years has become a very depressing city: declining population, high crime etc

thanks for the info . latley , i heared that many people, arabs, have beeen killed . and otherd have been robbed few weeks ago , some peole attacked my freind's cousin there.they was about to kill him but he gave them wahtever he had at that time . it is really sad to hear about such crimes

[damarys]

Thanks for sharing, I know why the caged bird sings touched me deeply!
certainly its different from what i used to read( with coplets, rhyms ..etc) but i enjoyed reading it and i would love to have recomendation for other schools if you can..i'm more interested in metaphysical school so if you know any contemp metaphysical writers i would appreciate ur help

i have question..in poetry, or in writing in general, when you symbolises using objects refering to human, would you use pronouns for objects or for human? example
Moon= woman& sun= man do i refere to them by ( it) or (s/he)( her-him),(his-her)?

I'm not an expert on poetry at all. I'm a casual reader who is sometimes drawn to certain poems. I too was touched the first time I read 'I know whwy the caged bird sings". Angelou also wrote a book by the same name; I heard it is fabulous and has earned awards. I have not read it. It is her autobiography... as a child. Don't know much else about it.

The answer to your question is not easy. Objects are generally referred to as 'it', as are animals. BUT, if in the poem, they give the object or animal a character or a name, then it becomes a he/she. For example, in the poem below about the moon from Greenwood, he refers to the moon as an 'it':

The moon weeps
Without a warning
In the ebony night
When it becomes lonesome
As the stars have departed

But in this poem by Vijay Gupta, talks about the moon being a lady, and so he refers to the moon as a 'her'.

Moon’s lady
Moon’s lady is weaving yarn
like my mother’s mother.
I’ve seen her in my childhood & to
the moon’s lady every day in nights.
Moon’s lady is an imaginary photo
which I have seen so many times
when moon lits in full swing.
Moon’s lady recalls
Memories of my childhood
Passed in the lap of my mother’s mother.

[MAHA]

Oops! See????? His stuff is so much better!

no dear ur stuffs r equaly good . i really really apreciate ur answering me in details
.

[MAHA]

Hi Maha!

The city was Detroit, in the state of Michigan. The man tried to blow up the plane in the air, as it was preparing to land in Detroit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._on_US_map.png

Apparently only about 1% of the population is Arabic ... about 10 thousand out of 1 million.
Detroit is very cold and is not one of favorite cities

Apart (from) and aside (from) can both be used like the phrase regardless of:

Yes, I love to visit the sea. Apart from that, my favorite place to vacation is the mountains.

Aside from the fact that I failed the final exam, I passed the class.

Regardless of my affiliation to one political party, I may vote for either party in every election.

You can change those phrase around, use any of them in any of those sentences. Just be sure to use "from" after the words apart and aside, and use "of" after regardless.

thanks my freind very much i really apreciat ur answering me . i dont what could i do without urand dayaman's help . thanks again
http://www.freenaturepictures.com/as...llowcannas.jpg