Learning Greek language

[maria_gr]

This thread has nothing to do with lyrics, but with greek grammar. So if anyone has any questions or wants to learn the greek grammar, this is the best place. (I'm sorry for creating this thread here, but I didn't know where to place it!)

[maria_gr]

Α, α (álfa) ------>We pronounce it like a in the word father
Β, β (víta) ------> We pronounce it like v in the word vote
Γ, γ (gáma) -------> We pronounce it like w in the word water
Δ, δ (délta) -------> We pronounce it like th in the word there
Ε, ε (épsilon) -------> We pronounce it like e in the word elegant
Ζ, ζ (zíta) ------> We pronounce it like z in the word zoo
Η, η (íta) ------> We promounce it like i in the word meet
Θ, θ (thíta) ------> We pronounce it like th in the word theatre
Ι, ι (yióta) ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
Κ, κ (kápa) ------> We pronounce it like k in the word cat
Λ, λ (lámda) ------> We pronounce it like l in the word lamp
Μ, μ (mi) ------> We pronounce it like m in the word mistake
Ν, ν (ni) ------> We pronounce it like n in the word not
Ξ, ξ (ksi) ------> We pronounce it like ks (x) in the word taxi
Ο, ο (ómikron) ------> We pronounce it like o in the word decoration
Π, π (pi) ------> We pronounce it like p in the word parrot
Ρ, ρ (ro) ------> We pronounce it like r in the word rare but a little bit heavier cause english -r is kind of soft
Σ, σ (sígma) ------> We pronounce it like s in the word soft
Τ, τ (táf) -------> We pronounce it like t in the word teeth
Υ, υ (ípsilon) ------> We prononce it like i in the word meet
Φ, φ (fi) ------> We pronounce it like f in the word fake
Χ, χ (hi) ------> We pronounce it like h in the word hat
Ψ, ψ (psi) ------> We pronounce it like ps in the word lips
Ω, ω (oméga) ------> We pronounce it like o in the word decoration

[maria_gr]

γκ ------> We pronounce it like g in the word game
γγ ------> It's the same with the γκ
μπ ------> We pronounce it like b in the word big
ντ ------> We pronounce it like d in the word dog
τζ ------> We pronounce it like g in the word gender
τσ ------> We pronounce it like ch in the word chair but more clear and soft than the english one

αι ------> We pronounce it like e in the word elegant
ει ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
οι ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
υι ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet

[panselinos]

Some additional notes from me.

Actually, in English there is an exact sound for δ (délta). Just like in the word "there".
So, Θ, θ (thíta) is pronounced like voiceless "th" - as in "thanks", whereas Δ, δ (délta) is voiced "th" - as in "though".

VOWEL DIGRAMMES

Binary vowel letterings started their life representing apparently a sequence of two sounds. Gradully their fast utterance was heard as a diphthong. After classical times, in different centuries and different places they were simplified in monophthongs (today's pronunciation). Although modern Greeks pronounce them as one sound, you will often find them listed under 'diphthong' chapters in contemporary grammars. Their historical orthography remains intact.

In Modern Greek the digramme AI
1) is pronounced [e]
a)when without stress at all: αι = [e] - αισθητικό (esthitiko)
b)or when a stress on its second component: αί = [e] - αίνιγμα (enigma)

2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ai/ or uttered in a fast diphthong /ai/
a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in άι = [`ai] [`ai] - Mάιoς (Maios)
b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in αï = [ai] [ai] - αρχαïκό (arhaiko)
(also with dialytics+stress at second component αΐ = [a`i]

***

In Modern Greek the digramme EI
1) is pronounced [i]
a)when without stress at all: ει = [i] - εικόνα (ikona)
b)or when a stress on its second component: εί = [i] - είρων (iron)

2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ei/ or uttered in a fast diphthong /ei/
a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in έι = [`ei] [`ei]
b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in εï = [ei] [ei] - γoνεïκό (goneiko)
(also with dialytics+stress at second component εΐ = [e`i]


***

In Modern Greek, the digramme OI
1) is pronounced [i]
a)when without stress at all: oι = [i] - oικoλoγία (ikologia)
b)or when a stress on its second component: oί = [i]

2) is pronounced with its components split completely /oi/ or uttered in a fast diphthong /oi/
a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in όι = [`oi] [`oi] - κoρόιδo (koroido)
b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in oϊ = [oi] [oi] - κoρoϊδία (koroidia)
(also with dialytics+stress at second component oΐ = [o`i] - Λοΐζος (LoIzos)


***

In Modern Greek the digramme OY
1) [u]is pronounced
a)when without stress at all: oυ = [u] - oυρανός (ouranos)
b)or when a stress on its second component: oύ = [u]

2) is pronounced with its components split completely /oi/
a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in όυ = [`oi]
b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in oϋ = [oi] - πρoϋπόθεσις (proipothesis)
(also with dialytics+stress at second component oΰ = [o`i]


***

In Modern Greek the digramme AY is pronounced:
1) [av] : before vowels and β [v], γ [g], δ [d], ζ [z], λ [l], μ [m], ν [n], ρ [r]
[af] : in all other cases
a)when without stress at all: αυ = [af] or [av]
b)or when a stress on its second component: αύ = [`af] or [`av]

2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ai/
a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in άυ = [`ai]
b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in αϋ = [ai]
(also with dialytics+stress at second component αΰ = [a`i]


***

In Modern Greek the digramme EY is pronounced:
1) [ev] : before vowels and β [v], γ [g], δ [d], ζ [z], λ [l], μ [m], ν [n], ρ [r];
[ef] : in all other cases.
a)when without stress at all: ευ = [ef] or [ev] - Eυρώπη (Evropi), ευχαριστώ (efharisto)
b)or when a stress on its second component: εύ = [`ef] or [`ev] εύρηκα (evrika)

2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ei/
a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in έυ = [`ei]
b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in εϋ = [ei]
(also with dialytics+stress at second component εΰ = [e`i]

To be continued...

[maria_gr]

Yes, you've right, but I wanted to go slowly. They have to learn firstly the alphabet and then all the other exceptions.

[Nira Vancopoulos]

wow, I knew about the pronounciation of ai, ei, oi and ou, but when sounds like are write, I didn't. It's a good topic, a very very good topic ... ideal for me that I want to learn this beautiful lenguage *-*

Bye

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by Nira Vancopoulos

wow, I knew about the pronounciation of ai, ei, oi and ou, but when sounds like are write, I didn't. It's a good topic, a very very good topic ... ideal for me that I want to learn this beautiful lenguage *-*

Bye

Yes, some times we pronounce them, but i'll say them later. Firstly you have to learn the basic and later the exceptions, cause these are exceptions.

[shady_david20]

maria i cant draw the letters ??????
ζ δ and more
so wat to do ??????????????

[shady_david20]

maria
i found the letters in arabic
here is it
if i can help arabic speakers










maria i hope u figured it out
i no u cant speak arabic
but am gonna tell u
1.the 1st column in the left is the name of the greek letter in english
2.the 2nd one is the name of greek letter in arabic
3.the 3rd one greek capital letter
4.greek small letter
5.greek letter in english

if u see it u will gonna figure out that the 2 1st pictures are the same but i divided it cuz i cant put them all in one pic .

and the 3rd pic is some reading letter grammar

[panselinos]

Off topic (sorry, can't resist): Wow, shady_david, you're from Egypt? Ancient Egypt is my biggest passion. People around me even say I'm obsessed with it.

By the way, to be able to type Greek letters, you just need to add the Greek keyboard layout.

[lesenna]

It's a wonderful topic!
I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?

[lesenna]

And why does greek have many "i" sounds?
I don't know when i can use íta, iota, ípsilon and the combinations ει, οι and υι... In which situations we can use each "i"?

[panselinos]

Originally Posted by lesenna

It's a wonderful topic!
I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?

They're not the same.
Delta is a voiced dental fricative, whereas thita is a voiceless one.
Try to pronounce "father" and "gothic" and you'll probably hear the difference.
Yes, "ντ" is the diagramme* that represents [d] as in "day". Although in the middle of the word that same diagramme is pronounced like "nd" - παντα = panda.
The reason is Greek words do not usually start with the ΝΤ combination. Ηellenized foreign words start with it ([d], that is). It originates mostly from composition of words e.g. εν+τασις = entasis [endasis]. That's why, when NT occurs in the middle of a Greek word, it is pronounced [nd].
Same goes to the MП combination.

__________
*di- δις [δis] - twice + γράμμα [grama] - lettersymbol = two letter combination

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by lesenna

And why does greek have many "i" sounds?
I don't know when i can use íta, iota, ípsilon and the combinations ει, οι and υι... In which situations we can use each "i"?

Well, in the past, I mean in ancient Greece, the pronunciation wasn't the same and they read what they were seeing. For example ει wasn't i, but ei and so on. But the pronunciation with the pass of the years has changed. And now this is the new form of our language and the simple grammar who Manolis Triantafillidis had established. Yes, I agree the grammar is more simple than the ancient Greek, but the dictionary so difficult. I admit that I make mistakes myself too! I'll try to tell you all the rules that they exist, but firstly you have to learn the Greek alphabet by heart and then I'll continue. You cannot go to the war if you don't have your weapon, so you cannot continue here if you don't know the alphabet. So there is nothing we can do, that's our language and its richness. For good or for bad, our language is the richest language of the world with 5.000.000 words.

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by lesenna

It's a wonderful topic!
I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?

The combination ντ is the real english d.
If you want to pronounce δ, you must put your tongue on the edge of the teeth that they are up and then you can pronounce it correctly.
For the θ, you must do the same thing, to put the tongue on the teeth that they are in the top, then close the mouth more and pronounce it. When you pronounce θ it's like you're trying to blow with your tongue on your teeth.

Well, I know it's difficult to understand so I'll put a link, so you'll be able to here and understand the pronunciation, cause just with words, we do nothing. To here them just click the faces!

Lesson 0

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by shady_david20

maria i cant draw the letters ??????
ζ δ and more
so wat to do ??????????????

You cannot write them down? I hope that this can help you, my friend

http://www.greece.org/gr-lessons/gr-...Gif/script.gif

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by shady_david20

maria
i found the letters in arabic
here is it
if i can help arabic speakers










maria i hope u figured it out
i no u cant speak arabic
but am gonna tell u
1.the 1st column in the left is the name of the greek letter in english
2.the 2nd one is the name of greek letter in arabic
3.the 3rd one greek capital letter
4.greek small letter
5.greek letter in english

if u see it u will gonna figure out that the 2 1st pictures are the same but i divided it cuz i cant put them all in one pic .

and the 3rd pic is some reading letter grammar

Oh Shady, that's great. An excellent idea really! If anyone from Egypt wants to learn the greek alphabet it will be easier for him. Thanks!

[penny]

Originally Posted by lesenna

It's a wonderful topic!
I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?

lesena as you live in brazil I believe (but not for sure) that you have heard some spanish....δ is like d in the middle of a word like navidad,vida (carefull without any n or l before...) and θis like z in spanish from spain (castellano)
i don't know if i' ve helped but don't worry if you start easy you will learn greek, there are many things to remember especially at the begining butonce you do it will be easier, and thats for anyone DON'T WORRY!

[penny]

Originally Posted by maria_gr

You cannot write them down? I hope that this can help you, my friend

http://www.greece.org/gr-lessons/gr-...Gif/script.gif

Just put the greek layout its in the options, right clik on where the languages are showed

[lesenna]

Originally Posted by penny

lesena as you live in brazil I believe (but not for sure) that you have heard some spanish....δ is like d in the middle of a word like navidad,vida (carefull without any n or l before...) and θis like z in spanish from spain (castellano)
i don't know if i' ve helped but don't worry if you start easy you will learn greek, there are many things to remember especially at the begining butonce you do it will be easier, and thats for anyone DON'T WORRY!

Yes, penny, you're right, i live in brazil and i can speak spanish too and your explanation with spanish comparison helped me lots... for the time being, i have only these doubts about δ and the many "i" sounds in greek
I think i can get almost perfectly greek alphabet, now i can read (only read, not understand lol) some songs, for example, without latin alphabet transcription but without listening greek people talking is a little bit difficult to understand the pronunciation. but i am easy now

[lesenna]

Originally Posted by maria_gr

The combination ντ is the real english d.
If you want to pronounce δ, you must put your tongue on the edge of the teeth that they are up and then you can pronounce it correctly.
For the θ, you must do the same thing, to put the tongue on the teeth that they are in the top, then close the mouth more and pronounce it. When you pronounce θ it's like you're trying to blow with your tongue on your teeth.

Well, I know it's difficult to understand so I'll put a link, so you'll be able to here and understand the pronunciation, cause just with words, we do nothing. To here them just click the faces!

Lesson 0

thanks, maria, i did some exercises today

[maria_gr]

Οκ, I'm glad I helped you. I didn't know that you know spanish. I could explain it better cause i know.

Ah, I've remembered an example in english for γ. In the word yogurt, the yo is like the greek γ. Or in the spanish word garganta.

[maria_gr]

Vowels and consonants

Sounds are classed as either vowels or consonants.
Vowels are sounds that can form a syllable on their own.
Consonants are sounds that cannot form a syllable on their own.
The letters α, ε, η, ι, ο, υ, ω are vowels.
The letters β, γ, δ, ζ, θ, κ, λ, μ, ν, ξ, π, ρ, σ, τ, φ, χ, ψ are consonants.

Initial and final letters

The first letter of a word is called the initial letter. The last is the final* letter.

*words that end in the sound [s] are written final –ς (ex. τέλος).

Final consonants

Final consonants in Greek are the letters –ς and –v.
There are some exceptions like some exclamations, imitative and non Greek words. For example: αχ! Ουστ! Χερουβίμ, νίκελ, σοφέρ etc.

The double letters

The letters –ξ* and -ψ** are called double letter, cause each of them represents two sounds [ks] and [ps]. For example, λοξός (loksós), ψυχή (psihí), ψάχνω (psáhno), ξένος (ksénos).

*the combination [ks] is written –ξ, except in compound words whose first component is εκ: έξω, εκστρατεία.
**the combination [ps] is always written -ψ: ψαχνό, ψάρι.

Digraphs

Combination of letters which represent a single sound are called digraphs. Digraphs can be either vowels or consonants.

Vowel digraphs

a) The digraph ου represents the sound [u]: ουρά (urá).
b) The digraph αι represents the sound [e]: τελευταίος (teleftéos).
c) The digraphs ει, οι, υι* represent the sound [i]: κλειδί (klidí), υιός (iós), οίκος (íkos).

*the digraph υι is used in spelling the words: άρπυια, υιοθετώ, υιοθεσία, υιός.

Consonant digraphs

The consonant digraphs μπ, ντ, γκ occur in many words:
a) At the start of the word.
b) In the middle of the word, following a consonant and sometimes, but less frequently, following a vowel.
The combination γγ is pronounced like γκ in forms that have lost their initial vowel.
τσ and τζ τσιμπώ, έτσι, τζιτζίκι, τζατζίκι.
These two digraphs are often confused. But they represent very different sounds [ts] and [tz]. In many words there is a v before τσ or τζ.

Classification and description of consonants

Consonants are classified:
A. with respect to voice, as:
voiceless: κ, π, τ, χ, φ, θ, σ, τσ.
voiced: γ, β, δ, μπ, ντ, γκ, ζ, τζ, λ, μ, ν, ρ.
The voice of voiced consonants can be felt by a finger pressed lightly on the front of the throat.
B. with respect to duration, as:
Stops. These sounds are pronounced with the mouth open and last only a moment: κ, π, τ, γκ, μπ, ντ, τς, τζ.
Continuants. These sounds can last as long as desired: γ, β, δ, χ, φ, θ, σ, ζ, λ, μ, ν, ρ
C. with respect to point of articulation, as:
Labials: π, β, φ, μπ.
Dentals: τ, δ, θ, ντ.
Bidentals: σ, ζ, τσ, τζ. Cause of their sound they are also called sibilants.
Gutturals: κ, γ, χ, γκ.
Linguals: λ, ρ. They are also called and liquids.
Nasals: μ, ν. The pronunciation of these involves release of air through the nose. Μ is also classified as a labial and v as a lingual.

[shy.sushi]

wOWWWW!!! GREAT!!! really!!! thankss mariaaa!!! great post!!

[maria_gr]

Originally Posted by shy.sushi

wOWWWW!!! GREAT!!! really!!! thankss mariaaa!!! great post!!

Pakalo filenada. I'll do my best, but we are still at the beginning. The complicated things are later.

[shady_david20]

iam sorry maria
but there is something
i mean i was searshing for greek language but i alwayz find 2 options
modern and old greek???????????????????

[maria_gr]

What do you mean Shady?

[penny]

Originally Posted by lesenna

Yes, penny, you're right, i live in brazil and i can speak spanish too and your explanation with spanish comparison helped me lots... for the time being, i have only these doubts about δ and the many "i" sounds in greek

well if you notice when you say d as english, you put your tongue exactly behind your front(above) teeth BUT δ you must place your tongue at the edge of the front(obove) teeth and so as to let the air come more easily than saying d...any help?
about i there are many cause as maria said in ancient greek things were more complex, everyone had its own unic spelling, butnow it is just i( like o and ω, ω was more long than o). a good way to remember which i goes where is to find some "trics" like ει: is always at the end of verb forms like:με συμπαθει(he likes me), έχει, ξύνει.......
η: is usually at the end of the female nouns and the article: η τύχη...
οι: is the plural article of female and male nouns, but nothing more, but you can remember it from the mother word like οίκος which means house, we don't use it as a word many times but you can know after that all the produced ones from it like νοικοκυριό, οικότροφος... just find the mother word...
υι: is only in words, no grammatic rule..., but if you know than υιος (son) is written like that you will know its prodused word like υιοθετω(adopt)....
υ:ιs the worst...you have to learn them, those with υ...but something for sure is that you can know when a υ at the begining when a word starts with υπο- (:below)
ι: no rules....used for non-greek word also

[shady_david20]

maria
i mean
i was searching for greek language links
so i found links for sites offer old greek and modern greek
so u r teaching us old or modern
and wat is the differnce and stuff like that ?

[lesenna]

Originally Posted by shady_david20

maria
i mean
i was searching for greek language links
so i found links for sites offer old greek and modern greek
so u r teaching us old or modern
and wat is the differnce and stuff like that ?

Hello shady! she is teaching us modern greek. coz old (classical) greek is not speaking in greece anymore, but old greek is still teaching nowadays coz it was the origin of many ocidental languages (like mine, for example... as brazilian i speak portuguese and there are many words took from old greek, specially their roots), and coz of Hole Bible texts those were written in old greek