Questions about English language & grammar

[MAHA]

my dears , instangulbul and jadrode . thank u very much for ur help . i iwell read every thing in details later i have to log off

[MAHA]

Originally Posted by jandros

Hi Maha. I can't recommend a book, hoping Istanbulgal or someone can help you there. But about "unlock", are you looking for one of these words?

unbutton (if it has buttons)
unzip (if it has a zipper)
untie (for strings, like shoestrings)
unhook (for hooks, like on a dress)
unfasten or undo are other general-purpose words which sometimes are used for buttons, zippers, hooks, strings, velcro, lots of different things. But it's better to use the specific "un-" word for each kind of fastener.

Button up your collar is a common phrase, to close the collar (not to undo it).

Button down is not used like this, not for undoing something.



Did I answer your questions?

yes , my dear i hleped me alot thanks

[MAHA]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

Hi Maha: I did see your post dear, but I'm not a linguist, believe it or not, I don't know everything, or did you think I did?.

yes m dear i think u know everyyyyyyyyyyyyyy thing
so , u dont like linguistic . believ or not iam crazy about linguistic especially english's . may be my english isnot good but my pronunciatin is better

[MAHA]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

[b]". I guess I can now get my linguistics diploma, lol. Gosh, how boring!!. My sincere apologies to all linguists out there!

[]

hahahahah yes , now u can get ur linguistic diploma thanks dear for the links and teh expaining

[MAHA]

Originally Posted by jandros

Istanbulgal, if I haven't missed you by now, I'm still having morning coffee! Woke up late ... went back to sleep ... finally rolled out of bed ..... still trying to get my eyes to open completely

Blueberry pancakes!!!!! Yum Yum!!



How often have I meant to say this too? ... but I'm sure that I have said before, why do ESL courses and classes seem to be so complicated?

Maha, in a nutshell (very simply), my best advice concerning "t" and "d" and "r", etc-etc-etc, is to learn and practice the basic sounds of these letters, and then never wander very far from the basic sounds, so that small variations won't seem so confusing. In "neutral" English, the simplest sounds of consonants will most often be correct. This might seem to be a little misleading or contradictory ... and of course it's important to know how to answer questions on tests ... but I think it's very important to master the basic sounds and then use them as strong anchors for additional learning, so that the nuances of British versus American English won't seem so complicated. Not to seem critical but I think an "r" is an "r" and a "t" is a "t", no matter whether it's British or southeastern American or Australian or whatever. English is English. I think dialects and accents should only be considered as small variations of "pure" English. As I've traveled in my life, in speaking with Brits, Australians, South Africans, Scots, Irish, eastern and western Canadians, and Americans in Boston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Denver or Seattle, I have discovered that we all speak exactly the same language! ..... and maybe I'm too much of a purist, or maybe I'm just too opinionated but that's my opinion on the entire subject of English pronunciation

hi my freind . thanks dear for explaining the meaning of each word . regarding english pronunciaton . i get u . like u , i think 'r' should pronounced /r/ and 'd' like /d/ but what can we do it is ur language . i know waht do mean by saying marican and canadian speaks the same langauge . it is exactly what me , orwa , elraisa and mavii think fee l;we feel that we speak the same langaue but for non arabs there r alot of different

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by MAHA

yes m dear i think u know everyyyyyyyyyyyyyy thing
so , u dont like linguistic . believ or not iam crazy about linguistic especially english's . may be my english isnot good but my pronunciatin is better

Thank you Maha, that was kind of you to say, but it's not exactly true.

Some subjects require a lot of patience and linguistics is one of them, so I guess that means you're very patient! About the pronunciation, as I suggested earlier, listen to English recordings, ideally British ones like the one I posted & once you become more fluent, then you can listen to American/Canadian, after that you can move to Irish, Australian, etc.

Have you finished reading Anne of Green Gables? You might consider reading "Anne of Avonlea" also.

"Anne of Avonlea covers the next two years after Anne of Green Gables. Anne Shirley has a wonderful, settled home with Marilla Cuthbert in Avonlea. She becomes a beloved school teacher, stays close friends with Diana Barry, Gilbert Blythe, Jane Andrews, and the others from their group that stay in Avonlea."



Happy reading!

[MAHA]

اHI INSATNGULBUL
well, it is a good idea to listen to records but the problem is that sometimes epeol say salng and informal . as a non native speaker i prefer formal english . but i will listen to some of them but u have to be ready to help me if i face diffculty . will u ??
about anne of green gable, no didnot yet . mty freind lended my fives short storied in adddition to anne of green gable . i was afraid he may askes for them so i stopped reading anne of green gable and red the short stories. i have already finnshed reding "oliver twist " i dont like this story but it full of nice sentnces . orwa , i recommend reding it . i t have helped me alot . i will contiue reading anne. after i finish anne i will start with Anne of Avonlea . but isit teh second aprt of anne of grenn gable or what ?????
thanks for teling me about this novel

[xiurell]

I loved Anne of Green Gables series

And talking about pronunciation I have recently discovered that exists differences in the [i] sounds, long vs short as

sheap / ship
feet / fit
peach / pitch
litre / litter

Do you really distinguish words according to the [i] sound lenght? Is that true?

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by MAHA

1. it is a good idea to listen to records but the problem is that sometimes epeol say salng
2. you have to be ready to help me if i face diffculty . will u ??
3. i will start with Anne of Avonlea . but isit teh second aprt of anne of grenn gable or what ?

1. Maha: the recording I posted has NO slang whatsoever. Did you listen to it?. It is a news recording & it was pronounced to perfection; I guarantee that you will understand 99%.

2. Of course, I promise that Jandros, Orwa, I or others will be ready! LOL.

3. Yes, read the small quote I posted above! Not as funny & imaginative as the 1st, nevertheless, great Canadian literature!

Orwie, Maha is right, 'Oliver Twist' is a nice book. Btw: did you finish reading "Little Men?"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Twist

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by xiurell

I loved Anne of Green Gables series

And talking about pronunciation I have recently discovered that exists differences in the [i] sounds, long vs short as

sheap / ship
feet / fit
peach / pitch
litre / litter

Do you really distinguish words according to the [i] sound lenght? Is that true?

Hola amiguito, ¿cómo estás?! Glad to hear you are familiar with Canadian writers.

Another phonology question, my favourite. Yes, of course we distinguish meaning of words according to the sound. We have the long & short mutated & unmutated vowels, so you're right.

Additional examples of the long 'i' sound: I, fry, try and so on, you can stretch the 'i' sound like a piece of gum if you will!

Examples of the short 'i' sound: tick, pick, sip, bit and so on.

You have them in Spanish too, don't you? You can say 'si' or 'siiiiiiiii'.

There is also the 'soft' sound of 'a':

long: play
short: rat
soft: awsome



I forgot, it's cold in your neck of the woods too, so Mares, enjoy tu finde.

[xiurell]

Thank you very much niña

So I have to learn any word pronunciation or is there any rule according to the spelling of a word to know when to pronounce a long or short vowel?

I think I don't really understand what you mean with "the 'soft' sound of 'a'"

[Orwa]

Hello, Teachers, i wanted to ask a little question, it is not so little but it is a little bit easy

What is the difference between "I have had" & "I had" & "I had had"?

Thanks very much in advance.

@Ms. M, i'll try to find the "little man" novel on the internet, but not now cuz i am super busy but i promise a monkey promise that i'll read it, thanks very much for suggesting, miss

[MAHA]

Originally Posted by xiurell

Thank you very much niña

So I have to learn any word pronunciation or is there any rule according to the spelling of a word to know when to pronounce a long or short vowel?

I think I don't really understand what you mean with "the 'soft' sound of 'a'"

wow finally someone asked about liguistic


HI XIURELL. let me help u . here r the phonitic symboles and examples
Consonants
/p/ pen, copy, happen
b back, baby, job
//t tea, tight, button
/d// day, ladder, odd
/k/ key, clock, school
/g/ get, giggle, ghost
/tʃ/ church, match, nature
dʒ/ judge, age, soldier
/f/ /fat, coffee, rough, photo
/v/ view, heavy, move
/θ/ thing, author, path
/ð/ this, other, smooth
/s/ soon, cease, sister
/z/ zero, music, roses, buzz
/ʃ/ ship, sure, national
/ʒ/ pleasure, vision
/h/ hot, whole, ahead
/m/ more, hammer, sum
/n/ nice, know, funny, sun
/ŋ/ ring, anger, thanks, sung
/l/ light, valley, feel
//r/ right, wrong, sorry, arrange
/j/ yet, use, beauty, few
/w/ wet, one, when, queen
/ʔ/ (glottal stop)
/d/epartment, football
/
V/owels
/ɪ/ kit, bid, hymn, minute
/e/ dress, bed, head, many
/æ/ trap, bad
/ɒ/ lot, odd, wash
/ʌ/ strut, mud, love, blood
/ʊ/ foot, good, put
/iː/ fleece, sea, machine
/eɪ/ face, day, break
/aɪ/ price, high, try
/ɔɪ/ choice, boy
/uː/ goose, two, blue, group
/əʊ/ goat, show, no
/aʊ/ mouth, now
/ɪə/ near, here, weary
/eə/ square. fair, various
/ɑ:/ start, father
ɔː/ thought, law, north, war
/ʊə/ poor, jury, cure
/ɜː/ nurse, stir, learn, refer
/ə/ about, common, standard
/i/ happy, radiate. glorious
/u/ thank you, influence, situation
/n̩/ suddenly, cotton
/l/̩/ middle, metal
ˈ/ (stress mark)
and the below link show u how r these sounds devided
http://www.projectx2002.org/english_...ic_symbols.htm

[MaresLejanos]

Originally Posted by Orwa

What is the difference between "I have had" & "I had" & "I had had"?

Finally something I'm able to answer!!!!

"I had": past simple, it indicate something that you already did or passed, it's finished, and it's usually (if not always) written with the moment when it happened: for example:

- I had a dog when I was a child (I don't have the dog anymore).
- I finished my secondary school in 1993.
- I went to the cinema last saturday (I did it one day and it's over).

"I have had": present perfect. It's written with have/has + the verb in past participle (verb with "ed" in regulars, and third column in iregular). This tense is used when you don't specify the moment when the action has ocurred, and about something that last a certain period of time, and probably has some concecuence in the future.
Examples:
I've been studying Engineer for 3 years (it has some concecuence, you might be studying yet, or maybe you have finished the studying, but you have as a concecuence the result of the years of studying.)
- I have traveled a lot. (You're not saying when you have traveled)
- He has never met Angela (it means he never met Angela before, neither today)
- I haven't known it!!! (you did not know it along your life until this moment...)


- "I had had": past perfect, I guess, I can't remember. It's the past of the past, it refers to something that happened before other something you are saying that happened too. It's written with the verb have in past and the past participle of the other verb: had + verb(past participle)
Examples:

- I took an long shower last night, because I had had a very difficult day in my job.
- I felt too tired last saturday, because I had run 10km that morning.
- I have been feeling tired lately, because I had been sick with a strong flu that made me weak.

Well.. I'm not sure if I'm clear, let Istanbulgal or Jandros explain it better

[Orwa]

Ms. Mares, even though i thanked you by the button but this never stops me of coming to you Ms. D. & saying, thank you very much & btw...., we want another button called "THANK YOU VERY MUCH" for this thread, cuz the thank you isn't enough it all

I'll read again, or better to say i'll study it later, but i wanted to thank you miss

Ms. Spriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, go ahead, we want two buttons, one is thank you & other is thank you very much, deal?? lol just joking

[MaresLejanos]

You're very welcome my friend I have to sleep, I work tomorroe again .. Just when I was getting used to the weekedn ... LOL... See you soon!!! Kisses!!

[MAHA]

HI GUYS ., iam in ahurry ihave to go to bed . iam not sleepy but rule is rule
while i was looking for the usage of hands clasped , i found this link . it will help u
and waht is teh meaning of portrait in this sentence "Man standing in art gallery, hands clasped, portrait" doest mean picture or what ??

http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-ima...s-clasped.html

EDIT: ISTANGULBUL, what is the difference between going on picnic and siting outdoor/? i know that going on picnic means we will have a himemade food and eat when we get the place we r going to . but i have no idea about sitting outdoor

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by xiurell

Thank you very much niña

1. So I have to learn any word pronunciation or is there any rule according to the spelling of a word to know when to pronounce a long or short vowel?

2. I think I don't really understand what you mean with "the 'soft' sound of 'a'"

1. There are rules, but as we all know, rules don't always apply.

Here are some links, let me know if you find them helpful. Note: keep in mind that in English, the letters 'w' and 'y' also produce vowel sounds & don't forget that there are silent vowels as well, you don't have to worry about these, just learn which are silent.

http://www.esltrail.com/2008/07/deco...l-long-or.html
http://www.phonicsworld.com/shortvowels.html
http://www.squidoo.com/literacyandphonetics

Good video:
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?h...d=0CBcQqwQwAw#

And here is a quiz!
http://a4esl.org/q/f/z/zy68srb.htm

2. If you listen to the pronunciation of play, rat and awesome, you'll hear 3 distinct 'a' sounds, which of the 3 words has the softest 'a' sound?

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by MAHA

1. waht is teh meaning of portrait in this sentence "Man standing in art gallery, hands clasped, portrait"

2. EDIT: ISTANGULBUL, what is the difference between going on picnic and siting outdoor/? i know that going on picnic means we will have a himemade food and eat when we get the place we r going to . but i have no idea about sitting outdoor

1. 'Portrait' means the type of photo.

2. 'Sitting outdoors' means just that, that you are sitting outside as opposed to inside. All pics. below = sitting outdoors.







Sitting indoors.

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by Orwa

Well, cannot it be moved to somewhere that we can apply the thanks system to it?!!!??, i mean other parts of the forum where we can apply the system & don't be off topic, i hope you would help to do that Ms. S , cuz it is NOT fair to thank people who help in the languages thread and don't thank these awesome teachers here

I know they are not helping looking for increasing their points, but they deserve it actually

I meant to comment before, but sorry, I forgot.

I just wanted to thank you for your effort, I know you have tried to have this done more than once and I can only think of ONE person who would have cared enough and gone that extra step to have members recognized, so thanks again! You're one in a million as we say!

[MAHA]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

1. 'Portrait' means the type of photo.

2. 'Sitting outdoors' means just that, that you are sitting outside as opposed to inside. All pics. below = sitting outdoors.







Sitting indoors.

thank u dear for ur help . u r really helping us . these pics help alot

[xiurell]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

1. There are rules, but as we all know, rules don't always apply.

Here are some links, let me know if you find them helpful. Note: keep in mind that in English, the letters 'w' and 'y' also produce vowel sounds & don't forget that there are silent vowels as well, you don't have to worry about these, just learn which are silent.

http://www.esltrail.com/2008/07/deco...l-long-or.html
http://www.phonicsworld.com/shortvowels.html
http://www.squidoo.com/literacyandphonetics

Good video:
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?h...d=0CBcQqwQwAw#

And here is a quiz!
http://a4esl.org/q/f/z/zy68srb.htm

2. If you listen to the pronunciation of play, rat and awesome, you'll hear 3 distinct 'a' sounds, which of the 3 words has the softest 'a' sound?

Thank you very much, very interesting and useful links. Now I have discovered that you have 15 vowel sounds!!! I will never be able to distinguish all of them and without forgetting the long and short vowel issue

In Spanish we have only 5 vowel sounds and no difference between short and long sounds, that's why I have to train my ear

[istanbulgal]

Originally Posted by xiurell

Thank you very much, very interesting and useful links. Now I have discovered that you have 15 vowel sounds!!! I will never be able to distinguish all of them and without forgetting the long and short vowel issue

In Spanish we have only 5 vowel sounds and no difference between short and long sounds, that's why I have to train my ear

Sorry I had to break it to you, but the video was good, wasn't it?!

It's not too bad Xiurell, instead of 15, just think of it as 3 sounds per vowel, doesn't that sound much better?. It is true that in English, spelling and pronunciation don't always correspond as they do in Spanish, but you can master all sounds, you just need to speak it & hear it a lot and of course a little bit of patience & you'll see how much you can improve in no time at all.

Buena suerte niño!

[Orwa]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

I meant to comment before, but sorry, I forgot.

I just wanted to thank you for your effort, I know you have tried to have this done more than once and I can only think of ONE person who would have cared enough and gone that extra step to have members recognized, so thanks again! You're one in a million as we say!

THAT IS WHAT YOU DESERVE, I WISH I COULD SEE YOU FACE-TO-FACE TO TELL YOU THANK YOU, BUT AS I CANNOT, THEN WE WOULD TELL YOU THANKS TWICE EACH TIME, ONE BY WORDS & ANOTHER BY POINTS

[jandros]

Originally Posted by istanbulgal

...
It's not too bad Xiurell, instead of 15, just think of it as 3 sounds per vowel ... you can master all sounds, you just need to speak it & hear it a lot and of course a little bit of patience ...

I think this is great advice regarding English vowels; 3 sounds each. I think it expresses the essentials extremely well, and maybe it can reduce some confusion.

However, (a) I think there is one exception ... u ... and (b) I think this needs some further clarification. And Maha, I want to blend this idea of "3 each" with the excellent list in your earlier post. I'll call this my "short list" of English single-vowel sounds

a
eɪ ... long a (face, rain, break)
æ ... short a (bad, fact, manager)
ɑ: or ah (father, ball, fault, awesome ... remember that a following consonant can influence the vowel, or create a dipthong sound, but soft a/ah is generally the same sound)

e
iː or ee ... long e (feet, fleece, feel, sea)
e ... short e (dress, bed, benefit)
ə ... soft or neutral e (benefit)

i
ai ... long i (price, high, try, tide)
i ... short i (kit, bid, hymn, minute)
ee ... same as long e (machine, liter, happy, radiate, glorious)

o
əʊ or oh ... long o (vote, goat, oh, okay)
ɒ or ah .... same as soft a (lot, odd, wash)
ʌ or uh ... same as short u (strut, mud, love)

u (4 sounds)
u or yu/ju ... long u (you, use, uniform, unite, Juliet)
ʌ or uh ... short u (but, public, utter)
uː or "soft" oo (put, foot, good, book)
u: (goose, two, blue, influence, tool, prove)

y
As a vowel (not the first letter in a word), y is the same as i.
as long i ... why
as short i ... hymn, crypt, encryption, rhythmic
as ee (like long e) ... happy, money, glory

w
As a vowel, w is either used in a diphthong, like ow (tower, like loud) and aw (awesome), or it's silent (owe, low, bow, bowl).

And of course all dipthongs create another variation of complexity .......

edit: I've edited this post several times, sorry

[jandros]

Originally Posted by MaresLejanos

...
Well.. I'm not sure if I'm clear, let Istanbulgal or Jandros explain it better

Excellent explanation Mares, and I think your examples at the end are great!! I only want to add (or stress) that Past Perfect (just like in other languages) indicates an action that ended in the past. I had run, I had had, I had been singing, all were completed in the past. But if you say "I have been running" it suggests that you were just doing it, and/or you do it every day, and maybe you'll do it again soon. I have had a headache all day ... maybe I still have the headache, or maybe I feel better now

[Orwa]

I am running out of thank you's Mr. J, so i cannot push the button now, but later, but this never mean i do not say that the sounds & vowel you posted are very nice & it just shows how you're caring, thank you as many piece of hair you have

[jandros]

Orwiieeee!! ¿Cómo estás mi buen amigo?

Xiurell, in case I didn't mention this before, thanks for being here! Knowing your Spanish-teaching skills, I'd like to say that your participation in this English topic is stimulating and very well appreciated

[Orwa]

estoy muy bien, muchas gracias, deseo tubian , estoy querer go bed, buenas noches amigo hermano, take care (Oh, i am improving in spanish as well

[jandros]

Originally Posted by Orwa

estoy muy bien, muchas gracias, deseo tubian , estoy querer go bed, buenas noches amigo hermano, take care (Oh, i am improving in spanish as well

Muy bien
Pero ... en Español, yo pienso que es major decir, "Quiero dormir ahora" ... I want to sleep now ... or something like that

Spanish experts: Sí/no? This is a question of how to properly re-phrase, English <-> Spanish, "I want to go to bed"