Lyrics: A form of self expression, or is there talent involved?

Hi! I have been a closet lyricist for the last 10 years. I have written over 30 full length rap, or hip-hop songs. However they remain on my PC due to lack of connections. In my experience, at first with my music, I sucked at writing, but it made me feel much better about some of my current situations, so I stuck with it. For the first 3 or 4 years I was simply driven on self expression, then in the last 4 or 5 years I feel I have actually developed this artistry of the sort, into a talent.

I believe that in order to "train" a personal talent, one should at least enjoy their talent, especially when it can be used as a free-form of self expression. So many people engage themselves in big ticket industries simply for the money. These are the people, for example in the music industry who come out with one-hit-wonders, and are there after never heard of again. In limens, greed is not a talent. One must desire succession, because it will benefit them emotionally and spiritually, or in the least physically. Economic gain is not a viable basis for someone to want to go all the way!

I feel that when it comes to being a lyricist, either closet, or "basement; or a big time producer, running things out of a professional studio, one must desire succession because they are doing what they love to do. Otherwise I feel that those of whom butcher a certain class, or genre of music, is simply doing nothing more than chasing the dollar, and giving that class or genre of music, a bad name.

So IMO, it takes one basing their talents use off self expression, to develop it at as fully functioning talent, of a reasonable degree of promise. Please feel free to comment on this topic with whatever you chose to say. Compliments and Criticism are one and the same in my eyes.

Sincerely: Kid Wite

See, this is a bit difficult without me going into my personal opinions about todays mucis:

Personally, I think you have to end real songwriting in and upto the 1990s

Joe Walsh (James Gang/Eagles)
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
Don Henley/Glen Frey (Eagles)
Burt Bacharach...

They use both a near poetic talent to portray feelings about subjects that are close to them when writing a song and even hip hop acts such as:

Public Enemy
Run DMC
Grandmaster Flash
NWA

when they rapped, they didn't just rap about how much crystal they could drink in their "clurrrrrb", they rebelled against the way they were treated as young black people and that to me was almost poetic in it's delivery, Run DMC rapped more about good times and their hometown of Hollis, Queens but their message was the same about not being trod on and being yourself.


Pop music in the 80s was poetic too, bands like Duran Duran, Propaganda Blondie were poetic in their songwriting and lyrics... amazing bands (download 'Duel' by Propaganda and see what I mean).

Nowadays, I feel songwiriting has left and people (even in pop music) are just trying to rhyme "girl" with "world" too many times - the manufactured music scene doesn't help, everyone out to make a quick few thousand pound without first learniong the art of music (because it is an art -

Drawing
Architecture
Painting
Literature
Performing arts (Music, Theatre, Dance)

- and people forget this and just perform any old crap that they're told and the people buying it are brainwashed into believing that's the best music out today.


Rant over but it is my own opinion.

I think that it is both because in order to right the lyrics you have to have some spark. LIke a friends experiance or even your own. but it also involves because if not you will just have a whole bunvh of words. I too, dont tell anyone i write songs. So i gues i am still in the closet. ROFL.

As long as we’re being opinionated, I believe that poetry and/or music is created for the writer’s benefit and the rest of us are just happy or unfortunate by-standers. So, I would recommend that you don’t allow criticism (internal or external) to deter you from creating your own joy. You have no idea how many states have restraining orders against me "singing" in public.

However, I don't know that I would agree that poetry or songwriting (in the classical sense) has ended. It's just that it's not what the hot sellable item is at this moment. The music industry has always pushed the genre or artist that they could make the most money from ("We call it Riding the Gravy Train"). After the Beatles hit the charts, every promoter in the world rushed to their hometown (Liverpool), shoved a guitar into the hands of any teenager they could find and declared they had found the next superstar.

I can still remember the distain and pain of my parents when they were even momentarily exposed to the music I enjoyed in my high school and college years. Many of the popular songs contained direct or indirect references to getting laid or taking drugs. Even Paul Simon (one of my favorite poetry/lyrics writer) indicated that one of his most beautiful songs, “Bridge Over Troubled Waters”, was about heroin addition.

So, there's a ring of truth to the adage that "if it doesn't at least annoy the previous generation, it ain't Rock & Roll". Thus, old fuddy-duddies like me are not supposed to like the music of the day (unless you're their promoter). Say what you will about any genre of music but the millions of record sales are a clear indication that what does not appeal to you, does appeal to a lot of people for whatever reason. I just wonder if there will come a time in their life (as it did for me) that they will have second thoughts about playing some of music from their youth in front of their young children.

As all things in life are cyclical in nature, I hopefully await the return of “lacy, lilting lyrics” in popular music. Until then, I will keep looking for the diamonds in the rough…

Jujst a longer and less blunt version of my old ethos... Thank you

I understand and appreciate all of your opinions and comments, on the topic at hand. I agree strongly with Jester that Poetry and Musical Talent are in the end, one and the same. And yes originality in the Music Industry has come to pass as "too much work" for the current generation bent on getting laid, and getting paid. The art of music is becoming more or less a fad, and each new "artist" is but a flavor of the week. Hence why I refuse to sell my songs or my soul to the industry before I find the right organization, as theivery and lack of originality are but knieve impulses inherited by the quick minded producers of this age. We need more Tupac's, Dr. Dre's, and NWA's, even Eminem's. As these where the corner stone rappers of the industry, when it once had heart and each song was filled with a heart-felt turmoil, that was understandable in its age.

atmaster: Your opinion on the matter at hand is much appreciated, and furthermore, I agree that if someone is doing something, they should do it for their own benefit. Maybe not so much as economic benefits, but emotional. I feel that music is much like an extension of ones self, spoken in verse to explain their feelings, experiences, and express a talent that in many cases is rare. In my oppinion, I agree that poetry and songwriter hasn't ended, however it has come down to: Everyone thinks they can do it. And many of the hot "artists" of the day are immitators of the industry. As long as there are people who write from the heart, be it lyrics or poetry; then real lyricism, or poetry won't be dead, not in the traditional sense.

lyricsfromtheheart: I would say stick to what you know, and do your best, because in the end should it fail to succeed you can look in the mirror, nod and say "You did your best, that's all anyone could ask!" However as long as lyricism brings you, personal pleasure, then I would say keep it up. What bugs me about being a natural writer, is when you get 1 or 2 months of complete "writers bog" and I can't even rhyme, "cat" with "hat", effectively, lol.

Thanks again for showing some interest in my thread. Any other comments or opinions are openly welcome. I will do my best to adress each and everyone with my own personal opinion of the matter, turning this thread into a real conversation :P Take care all, and Gods Speed!

Sincerely: Kid Wite

Originally Posted by KidWite

I understand and appreciate all of your opinions and comments, on the topic at hand. I agree strongly with Jester that Poetry and Musical Talent are in the end, one and the same.

Thanks, glad someone appreciates my experience in the music business.

We need more Tupac's, Dr. Dre's, and NWA's, even Eminem's. As these where the corner stone rappers of the industry, when it once had heart and each song was filled with a heart-felt turmoil, that was understandable in its age.

Agreed but as much as I love those artists (bar Eminem who I still feel couldn't rap his way out of a wet paper bag), I'm more into rock/metal.

Gods Speed!

Is that about 120MPH?

Originally Posted by Jester

See, this is a bit difficult without me going into my personal opinions about todays mucis:

Personally, I think you have to end real songwriting in and upto the 1990s

Joe Walsh (James Gang/Eagles)
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
Don Henley/Glen Frey (Eagles)
Burt Bacharach...

They use both a near poetic talent to portray feelings about subjects that are close to them when writing a song and even hip hop acts such as:

Public Enemy
Run DMC
Grandmaster Flash
NWA

when they rapped, they didn't just rap about how much crystal they could drink in their "clurrrrrb", they rebelled against the way they were treated as young black people and that to me was almost poetic in it's delivery, Run DMC rapped more about good times and their hometown of Hollis, Queens but their message was the same about not being trod on and being yourself.


Pop music in the 80s was poetic too, bands like Duran Duran, Propaganda Blondie were poetic in their songwriting and lyrics... amazing bands (download 'Duel' by Propaganda and see what I mean).

Nowadays, I feel songwiriting has left and people (even in pop music) are just trying to rhyme "girl" with "world" too many times - the manufactured music scene doesn't help, everyone out to make a quick few thousand pound without first learniong the art of music (because it is an art -

Drawing
Architecture
Painting
Literature
Performing arts (Music, Theatre, Dance)

- and people forget this and just perform any old crap that they're told and the people buying it are brainwashed into believing that's the best music out today.


Rant over but it is my own opinion.

I completely get what you're saying here, I too feel that songs today just are not personal anymore, people start off writing personal stuff but they sell out when the money starts getting involved with their music