Learning Romanian language

[dya]

It's ok, tigress tim, we all make mistakes

[rudaire]

Originally Posted by dya

The imperative for the second person singular is Știi! (incidentally, it's the same form like for the present tense - tu știi) but the verb in itself can't actually be used in imperative. Imperative is about giving a command/order and the meaning of the verb is "against" this. You can't order someone to know!

Thank you for all your help dya and also tigress tim... I really appreciate it..

Dya, I disagree with what you've said above. I believe you can 'order' someone to know. I can say, (Tu) stii ca te iubesc, where the stii is imperative. Or I could use the softer imperative, sa stii ca te iubesc.. Am I wrong about this?? I mean this to read " KNOW! that I love you, like as if this is being questioned by my love. I do not mean for it to read "You know that I love you", where I'm simply stating know in the present tense.. I mean I'm telling you, "Know that I love you (I command you to know this..)

Long ago, with a former US president, in his campaign he repeatedly said "NO new taxes", meaning he wouldn't raise taxes, or that he would say 'no' to new taxes. After he became president he raised taxes, and the joke was that what he really meant was "KNOW new taxes", as if he was ordering us to know that there would be new taxes. Of course NO and KNOW sound exactly the same, so that was the big joke...

dave

[tigress_tim]

No No ! What I did was really stupid
Just say it ..I don't mind

Ahhh .. "100" ? You should celebrate !!! If there is any cake ..will I get a piece from it ?

Rudaire, no need to thank me

[rudaire]

Originally Posted by tigress_tim

No No ! What I did was really stupid
Just say it ..I don't mind

Ahhh .. "100" ? You should celebrate !!! If there is any cake ..will I get a piece from it ?

Rudaire, no need to thank me

OK, so I won't thank you for that specific response, but I do appreciate your willingness to help people like me on this forum... I've deleted your quote from my response since you seem to regret making it..

paa..
d

[tigress_tim]

Ahhh ! Thank you so much ! yes I regret :P A looot !!
So anytime you need me, for other things than grammar lesson
Feel freee to ask

Take care dave,

Tim

[dya]

I'm sorry for the delay, rudaire, but I had to check before answering you

I'm not sure that in your example (Stii ca te iubesc) there is an imperative. Maybe in a context of screaming at somebody who doesn't seem to get it

Other ways of explaining this verb's imperative would be:
Stii! ( in a context like: O my God, you KNOW!!)
Stii!( You really know it!)
Stii! ( Come on, concentrate, you know it!)

But, still, these are just nuances. The truth is that there are verbs who can't have imperative from a logical point of view. True that you can add a shade to whatever you say, so in this context, basically every verb can be used in the imperative.

Tigress Tim I'll let you know about the cake

[rudaire]

Originally Posted by dya

I'm sorry for the delay, rudaire, but I had to check before answering you

I'm not sure that in your example (Stii ca te iubesc) there is an imperative. Maybe in a context of screaming at somebody who doesn't seem to get it

Other ways of explaining this verb's imperative would be:
Stii! ( in a context like: O my God, you KNOW!!)
Stii!( You really know it!)
Stii! ( Come on, concentrate, you know it!)

But, still, these are just nuances. The truth is that there are verbs who can't have imperative from a logical point of view. True that you can add a shade to whatever you say, so in this context, basically every verb can be used in the imperative.

Tigress Tim I'll let you know about the cake

thank you again dya. let's see if we agree on the following 3 uses..

if I say:
write that I love you, I'm commanding you to write it
say that I love you, I'm commanding you to say it
repeat that I love you, I'm commanding you to repeat it

similarly,
think about how much i love you, I'm commanding you to think about it,

and last
know that I love you, I'm commanding you to know it..

Now if i phrase the last two in a question, it is no longer commanding, and can even have a different meaning to use the 'know' or 'think' in present tense..

You think that I love you? Is no longer commanding.

You know that I love you? if said as a question is someone who is surprised that someone else thinks the first person loves the second..

You know that I love you. Not a question, is simply a statement, and in this case know is again present tense, not commanding or imperative..

But
'know that I love you', just as much as 'repeat after me' seems like a commanding use in english at least...

just like
"remember your password' is a statement commanding you to not forget your password..

but
'I remember my password' is simply the present tense of remember..

I was under the impression that there were some verbs that didn't have commanding forms, like a vrea, a sosi, a ploua...

Wait, the book I'm looking at to find verbs without imperative forms agrees with you that there is no imperative form for a sti

I think I understand where I went wrong..

In english, we'll often use the word 'know' in the same place as 'understand'...... and the book I'm looking at does indeed have a form for understand that is imperative....

Does it make more sense to say,
"intelege ca te iubesc"

If it does, than maybe I fully understand....

dave

[dya]

Originally Posted by rudaire

In english, we'll often use the word 'know' in the same place as 'understand

'

Yes, I believe that was the thing none of us looked at. Indeed in english it is definitely an imperative if you use it like this. On the other hand, in Romanian it doesn't function the same way.

Originally Posted by rudaire

..... and the book I'm looking at does indeed have a form for understand that is imperative....

Does it make more sense to say,
"intelege ca te iubesc"

Exactly! THIS is the right imperative both in form and in use.

And this is also the equivalent of the imperative "know!" from english. For example, if in a movie someone says the phrase you used as an example (Know that I love you!) in the imperative, the Romanian subtitles would be: "Intelege ca te iubesc!"

I'm sure things are more than clear now

[rudaire]

I was chatting with someone, and I asked them if they were going to go to sleep, and they replied something like "daca nu se gaseasca ceva de facut", which I think means, "if I don't find something to do".. But I'd want that to read daca nu ma gasesc ceva sa fac... I think I understand that 'de facut' means 'to do' in an unconjugated form, like not specific to who is doing it.. Like saying, 'ceva de spus', or ceva de uitat (something to say, something to look (at).. But I don't understand the third person usage of 'a gasi'.. I think I've heard of something called the passive voice, and this may be another example of this. But can someone try to explain why this person didn't reply in the first person and instead chose third person??

thanks

Also, I see many times people are asking for the different forms of verbs when they already know the infinitive. Here is a website that will list all the forms for you if you know the infinitive and the correct spelling... Hope people find it helpful
http://www.dictionare.com/dictionaries/dictionary.htm
dave

[dya]

I think their answer was: dacă nu se găsește ceva de făcut.

which is not passive voice but reflexive "voice" in Romanian.
(check this for reference, in case you're not familiar with the reflexive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_voice)

The english translation of the phrase you mentioned can only be made with a passive(due to the absence of relexive in English): if nothing is found to do / if something isn't found to do
(None of these translations sound natural in English, but they help you understand the idea itself)

Now, your question as to why the person didn't use the first person:
Dacă nu găsesc ceva de făcut.

If you use the first person (active voice) it literally means "If I don't find something to do".

If you use the reflexive of the verb, that "something" is not to be found by you, it will appear regardless of your personal will.

I have to think of some exmaples of the reflexive so I can better illustrate its use and meaning.

Meanwhile, tell me if you understood what I've explained so far and if something is not clear, ask the questions! It's easier for me to explain when I know where to start from

[rudaire]

You're right. They did reply se gaseste, and I do understand what you write. thank you.. As for the de facut part, can I use de and any 'past tense' form of the verb to make that statement? Can I say, "Asculta! Am ceva de spus.. Or must I say, "Asculta! Am ceva sa spui"..

dave

Originally Posted by dya

I think their answer was: dacă nu se găsește ceva de făcut.

which is not passive voice but reflexive "voice" in Romanian.
(check this for reference, in case you're not familiar with the reflexive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_voice)

The english translation of the phrase you mentioned can only be made with a passive(due to the absence of relexive in English): if nothing is found to do / if something isn't found to do
(None of these translations sound natural in English, but they help you understand the idea itself)

Now, your question as to why the person didn't use the first person:
Dacă nu găsesc ceva de făcut.

If you use the first person (active voice) it literally means "If I don't find something to do".

If you use the reflexive of the verb, that "something" is not to be found by you, it will appear regardless of your personal will.

I have to think of some exmaples of the reflexive so I can better illustrate its use and meaning.

Meanwhile, tell me if you understood what I've explained so far and if something is not clear, ask the questions! It's easier for me to explain when I know where to start from

[DeBaires]

Originally Posted by rudaire

Also, I see many times people are asking for the different forms of verbs when they already know the infinitive. Here is a website that will list all the forms for you if you know the infinitive and the correct spelling... Hope people find it helpful
http://www.dictionare.com/dictionaries/dictionary.htm
dave

I use this site all the time!!!

[dya]

Originally Posted by rudaire

You're right. They did reply se gaseste, and I do understand what you write. thank you.. As for the de facut part, can I use de and any 'past tense' form of the verb to make that statement? Can I say, "Asculta! Am ceva de spus.. Or must I say, "Asculta! Am ceva sa spui"..

dave

de + participle is called "supin"(which is an impersonal verbal mood) : de făcut, de spus, de mers, de văzut, etc.

I don't imply you should learn all grammar terminology, but just in case you find the word supin in a book, you should know what it is.

And the phrase you asked about, you could say it in two ways:

Am ceva de spus-- (de+ participle)
Am ceva să spun--(using of the conjunctive mood: să+ present tense form)

Am ceva să spui is sometimes used but it's incorrect. So, don't learn it like this.

[rudaire]

Originally Posted by dya

[b]
Am ceva să spui is sometimes used but it's incorrect. So, don't learn it like this.

Wow, I simply used the incorrect conjugation when I said spui.. I meant sa spun. People really sometime say sa spui when they mean "to (I) say"??? Why would they say that?

dave

[dya]

It's a sign of not knowing grammar rules. It's that kind of thing which not so educated people "catch" from others and use it in the same way.

Now if you're curious to know why they use "spui" and they don't make another (wrong) choice: it's easier to pronounce spui as it ends in two vowels, than spun which ends in vowel+consonant.

[kmmy]

hy all. i'm from romania too and i found this site accidentaly while i was looking for some greek lyrics and after i saw that here are some greek classes too (a new language that i try to learn). but the most surprising of all are romanian classes and i take a look and saw the great work that dya and others made here. i've observed that u translated "thank you in advance" as "mulţumesc în avans" but i think that a better translation would be "mulţumesc anticipat " anyway congrats for all u've done so far!

[dya]

Welcome kmmy And thank you!

You're right about "multumesc anticipat", I think it is more used than "multumesc in avans".

Oh, and you'll find me in the Greek section as well That's how I found this forum too!!

[kmmy]

glad i could help when i see all this people trying to learn romanian , and they succeed , im more confident in myself learning greek.. its my 1st language that i learn without a teacher ... actualy 2nd ... 1st was spanish but that i learned it from "telenovele" looool (wich is a diff thing :P)

[DeBaires]

A few of questions:

1) Do you always use the infinitive after "putea" & if not, then when?

2) I'm having trouble understanding dumnealui/dumnealor & dumneaei/dumnealor.

3) & now I'm confused with dumneata vs. dumneavoastra.

Can someone please help?

[dya]

Very briefly, cause I need to go now (and I'll be away for a few days, so I'll answer other questions when back)

1. not the infinitive, but the conjunctive:

Aș putea să spun--I could say
Putea să vină--He could have come

2. dumnealui/dumnealor & dumneaei/dumnealor are the formal counterparts of he/they & she/they. So, in showing respect for a person(remember what I told you about dumneavoastra), instead of using he you'll talk about him with dumnealui. And so on.

3.Dumneata and all the afferent declined forms are just the informal counterpart of dumneavoastra. Meaning not very formal (like dumneavoastra) not totally informal (like tu)

[DeBaires]

Oh ok, thanks!

As for the putea, I meant after you conjugate "putea" do you always use the infinitive?

like "Eu pot vedea" vs. "Eu pot sa vad"...do you get what I mean?

*if you don't mind me asking, where are you off to? Vacation?

[dya]

After you conjugate "a putea" you always use infinitive OR conjunctive.

"Eu pot vedea" & "Eu pot sa vad" are BOTH correct. The firt one is more formal, the second one is more used on a daily basis. You ahve more chances to hera "eu pot sa vad" in a conversations that "eu pot vedea". But both are correct and used.

And yes, short vacation Just a few days in order to recharge batteries