Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ (we need to do a good idiomatic translation)

This song has been translated into English several times on the web. But none of these translations are in idiomatic English, so they don't convey the meaning very well at all.

Could someone do a paraphrase of the song which expresses the actual meaning, and I will then try to put this paraphrase into idiomatic English

Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ - 1968
Στίχοι: Μάνος Ελευθερίου
Μουσική: Μίκης Θεοδωράκης
http://www.stixoi.info/stixoi.php?in...s&song_id=4713
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6h5NwsTek

Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ
ταξίδι για την Κατερίνη
Νοέμβρης μήνας δε θα μείνει
να μη θυμάσαι στις οχτώ
να μη θυμάσαι στις οχτώ
το τρένο για την Κατερίνη
Νοέμβρης μήνας δε θα μείνει

Σε βρήκα πάλι ξαφνικά
να πίνεις ούζο στου Λευτέρη
νύχτα δε θα `ρθει σ’ άλλα μέρη
να `χεις δικά σου μυστικά
να `χεις δικά σου μυστικά
και να θυμάσαι ποιος τα ξέρει
νύχτα δε θα `ρθει σ’ άλλα μέρη

Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ
μα εσύ μονάχος σου έχεις μείνει
σκοπιά φυλάς στην Κατερίνη
μεσ’ στην ομίχλη πέντε οχτώ
μεσ’ στην ομίχλη πέντε οχτώ
μαχαίρι στη καρδιά σου εγίνει
σκοπιά φυλάς στην Κατερίνη

Hi David, look there was a discussion in this Forums:

http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=17514

Yes, Tahira - that was one of the three or four that I saw.

But it's not idiomatic English - I have no idea what the words are actually meant to say.

Like:

"THE MONTH NOVEMBER WILL NOT REMAIN"

What the hell is that supposed to mean? It makes no sense in English at all. I can GUESS at the meaning, but a translation shouldn't make anyone guess at anything.

That's why I suggested - let Amethystos or Duffy do a PARAPHRASE of the song that expresses the true INTENT of the words, and I will put the paraphrase into good idiomatic English poetry.

Yes I understand what you mean and for what you are looking for. As if "November" stands for example for a special political situation in that time.
Katerini is in the North of Greece; when I was a child we used to go by car to Greece and it was always our first stop after the border from Yugoslavia (that time.
Yes, let's wait what Duffy and Amethystos say. I am curios.

Well, November might mean something political.

But it could also be that the singer is just saying that his girlfriend won't visit him this November because she has found another man (the one she's drinking with in the train station.)

That's why we need someone like Amethystos or Duffy to tell us the "intended" meaning behind the "literal" meaning.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

This song has been translated into English several times on the web. But none of these translations are in idiomatic English, so they don't convey the meaning very well at all.

Could someone do a paraphrase of the song which expresses the actual meaning, and I will then try to put this paraphrase into idiomatic English

Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ - 1968
Στίχοι: Μάνος Ελευθερίου
Μουσική: Μίκης Θεοδωράκης
http://www.stixoi.info/stixoi.php?in...s&song_id=4713
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6h5NwsTek

There is no political message . The song (poem) talks about the dark and icy days,
which the soldiers had in those times. Many were in love and lonely in the cold.
This is the song for the lonelyness. Katerini at November is rainy and foggy. (Good for poets)!!!

Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ
ταξίδι για την Κατερίνη
Νοέμβρης μήνας δε θα μείνει
να μη θυμάσαι στις οχτώ
να μη θυμάσαι στις οχτώ
το τρένο για την Κατερίνη
Νοέμβρης μήνας δε θα μείνει

The train leaves at eight
trip to Katerini
There will never be another November (every November at 8:00, you will remember)
at 8, you will remember
at 8, you will remember
the train for Katerini
There will never be another November (every November 8:00, you will remember)

Σε βρήκα πάλι ξαφνικά
να πίνεις ούζο στου Λευτέρη
νύχτα δε θα `ρθει σ’ άλλα μέρη
να `χεις δικά σου μυστικά
να `χεις δικά σου μυστικά
και να θυμάσαι ποιος τα ξέρει
νύχτα δε θα `ρθει σ’ άλλα μέρη


I found you suddenly again
to drinking ouzo to Lefteri's place
night will not come in other places (locations)
you to have personal secrets
you to have personal secrets
and remember who is knowing (your secrets)
night will not come in other places (locations)

Το τρένο φεύγει στις οχτώ
μα εσύ μονάχος σου έχεις μείνει
σκοπιά φυλάς στην Κατερίνη
μεσ’ στην ομίχλη πέντε οχτώ
μεσ’ στην ομίχλη πέντε οχτώ
μαχαίρι στη καρδιά σου εγίνει
σκοπιά φυλάς στην Κατερίνη

The train leaves at eight
but you have left all alone
you have a look-out post in Katerini,
inside the fog five - eight
inside the fog five - eight
became knife in your heart,
you have a look-out post in Katerini

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

This song has been translated into English several times on the web. But none of these translations are in idiomatic English, so they don't convey the meaning very well at all.

True.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

it's not idiomatic English - I have no idea what the words are actually meant to say.

Like:

"THE MONTH NOVEMBER WILL NOT REMAIN"

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

You're so right!

There will never be another November
make you forget that train is leaving for Katerini at 8 o'clock.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

Yes, Tahira - that was one of the three or four that I saw.

I remembered that I had searched for the particular song in the past .... Have you seen this? -> http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/sh...l=1#post883972

Please add the lyrics that trouble you ....

OK Amethystos - thanks - I hadn't seen that thread - just the one Tahira mentioned.

In the thread that you have pointed out, the poster "safe1" wrote:

"I think it 's about a soldier who serves in the town of Katerini, and while he guards in his sentry-box, he watches the trains passing by, but his beloved person is not in any of them..."

So is that the basic sense of the song? Does it mean this:

"the soldier expects that his girl will vist him SOMETIME in November, and that she will come on the 8pm train ... BUT - the month of November is almost over and she has not come yet."

Please tell me if this is correct. If so, I will ask the rest of my questrions.

I wrote about the meaning.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

... the poster "safe1" wrote:

"I think it 's about a soldier who serves in the town of Katerini, and while he guards in his sentry-box, he watches the trains passing by, but his beloved person is not in any of them..."

So is that the basic sense of the song? Does it mean this:

"the soldier expects that his girl will vist him SOMETIME in November, and that she will come on the 8pm train ... BUT - the month of November is almost over and she has not come yet."

Back to those years, military service was a lengthy period up to 2-2.5 years.
During that period a soldier could have been in service at many camps in different cities.

So Eleftheriou describes:

1. The train departed at 8 o'clock FOR Katerini. In other words the train that brought him to Katerini's camp.
2. A night free of service during his stay in Katerini, in which he remembered of the person who knew his personal secrets.
3. While having the "5 to 8" shift in his sentry box ... the fact that train is leaving for Katerini at 8 o'clock hurt him.
Why? Who knows? Maybe his beloved one isn't coming to see him.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

Please tell me if this is correct. If so, I will ask the rest of my questrions.

Please continue my friend.

Duffy - you described the meaning IN GENERAL TERMS. But I am asking more how the SPECIFIC words of the song relate to its GENERAL meaning.

Amethystos - you wrote:

"Maybe his beloved one isn't coming to see him."

and I agree - we should go with that idea.

So, here are my next questions:

1) where is Lefteri's place - in Katerini, or where the two of them come from?

2) if he is only in Katerini for November, and if he goes to another camp after that, why can't she just take a different train to that new place? (I'm asking this because the lyrics imply that after November, she won't be able to continue coming to visit him.)

3) what are her secrets - the ones that he says he knows?

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

1) where is Lefteri's place - in Katerini, or where the two of them come from?

According to my analysis it's in Katerini.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

2) if he is only in Katerini for November, and if he goes to another camp after that, why can't she just take a different train to that new place? (I'm asking this because the lyrics imply that after November, she won't be able to continue coming to visit him.)

Who says he is only for November ..... (Read Duffy's comments placed in the beginning of his post)

Lyrics say only that he was felling loneliness that made him never forget the train that brought him there.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

3) what are her secrets - the ones that he says he knows?

It's his secrets, confessed probably to her (which she wasn't present in Lefteris' place).

Complicated huh?
I warned you that Eleftheriou poetry is full of tricks.

Πώ πώ φίλε, καλά που δεν ζητάει εξήγηση για τα ποιήματα του Ελύτη!