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Thread: Haiku

  1. #41
    Senior Member amaryn's Avatar
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    @Orchestra, consider this a litle sister of "to be afraid" I wrote on the poetry thread

    cul-de-sac : tu as raison

  2. #42
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    Ah ok, and here I was, wondering what a 'mouldering fire' is Well, if it is about a smouldering fire I get the image, very well done indeed. Something you've been thinking of, living in the land of the suicidal and the home of the insane...?

  3. #43
    Senior Member amaryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrchestraInside View Post
    Ah ok, and here I was, wondering what a 'mouldering fire' is Well, if it is about a smouldering fire I get the image, very well done indeed. Something you've been thinking of, living in the land of the suicidal and the home of the insane...?
    writing mistake.....I wondered myself what "mouldering" was... Thanks, I corrected the text

  4. #44
    Senior Member Frankie Jasmine's Avatar
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    Welcome, amaryn! First try? Very good, amaryn . . . Less is more, especially in haiku when well done. Looking forward to more! You can teach me by example how to use less words!

    O.I.: Thank you so much for the kireji information and beautiful haiku(s). Also I like the way you have broken down the syllables with hyphens on only 2 or more syllables.

    The method I used came about because I made blanks [i.e., _ or underscore] as an outline for my haiku (5-7-5 blanks). Then I'd begin my theme, sort of like filling in the blanks!! Elementary, of course, but it seemed to help me.

    OI, please continue with your haiku writing on this thread. Yours are truly artful. Seeing good haiku is more important than the technical information. As mentioned previously, haiku as a "picture poem" is worth a thousand words! . . . Anything about haiku you wish to share, please do--using the fine manner you did on senryu and kiregi, keeping it very simple and only to the basics, yet meaningful. Please consider this thread yours as well as mine, because your knowledge, comprehension, and talent with haiku is remarkable.

    And EVERYONE is invited to participate!

    _ _ _ _ _



    NEXT TOPIC: A personal observation for discussion . . . I have noticed that haiku is often written in one-syllable words. I've not read anywhere that this is preferable or recommended. Certainly, keeping to one-syllable words would improve the simplicity of a haiku. However, on this thread the participants have used multi-syllabic words and still maintained lovely simplicity in writing.

    Has anyone learned about this aspect of haiku and would like to share?

    _ _ _ _ _




    December day--
    Warm rain, thunder, lightning
    Sudden chill comes



    I request any constructive criticism, especially regarding the use of punctuation; what makes the kiregi? and any recommendations on the haiku itself. This is what happened here at the passing of midnight into a new day. Hey! that sounds pretty good . . . I'll try another! Same requests on it:


    December day
    Warm til passing of midnight
    Winter chill



    Comments/comparisons on either both??

    _ _ _ _ _

    EDIT: Haiku revised with some of OI's suggestions (below).
    Last edited by Frankie Jasmine; 12-10-2012 at 06:21 PM. Reason: Minor corrections to haiku

  5. #45
    Senior Member Frankie Jasmine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaryn View Post
    writing mistake.....I wondered myself what "mouldering" was... Thanks, I corrected the text

    Amaryn, in American English "moldering" is a word meaning to decay or disintegrate. American Englsh usually derives "o" from the British "ou" vowel-blend; so I presume there is a word, "mouldering." See thesaurus for synonyms and related words. So does "moldering" fit your meaning? or not?
    [Source: Merriam Webster Online Dictionary/Thesaurus]

  6. #46
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    Frankie,

    One element of haiku which both Japanese and (formal) English haiku require is that the middle line have more syllables than lines one and three. Obviously, there are haikus in English which deviate from this, especially the American haiku (5-3-5), but apart from that, the middle line is always supposed to have more syllables than the other two. It's a matter of symmetric beauty which all humans have in common; we tend to prefer symmetric things to asymmetric. I think that the original idea is to first say only very few words to attract attention to something, then describe it with slightly more words (middle line) and finish off with the "aha!" moment (last line). Of course, art is art and it may go any way. Just thought to point that out.

    I think that as long as one sees haikus as 'photographs' - frozen moments of time painted with a few strokes - then one is free to experiment with the rest. This also pertains to one of the most important parts of a haiku: quite like photographs, it is descriptive, but not definitive, that is, the adjectives used describe the scene but do not make any judgement of it (such as "beautiful", "good", "bad", "ugly"). Like this:

    Smi-ling cher-ry tree
    crown of whi-test fai-ry queens
    rest for wea-ry hearts

    This passes no judgement on the cherry tree, whereas:


    Be-loved cher-ry tree
    with her beau-ti-ful white crown
    I love her so much

    ...does so on every line.

    Both of your haikus do their job admirably. The mid line isn't longer, which can be an artistic choice. I think that you're better off without the dot in the first haiku, it feels "too definitive", if you know what I mean; haikus are supposed to "hang in the air" so to speak. Well done on both
    Last edited by Guest; 12-10-2012 at 03:02 AM.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Guest For This Useful Post:
    amaryn (12-10-2012),Frankie Jasmine (12-10-2012)

  8. #47
    Senior Member amaryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie Jasmine View Post
    Amaryn, in American English "moldering" is a word meaning to decay or disintegrate. American Englsh usually derives "o" from the British "ou" vowel-blend; so I presume there is a word, "mouldering." See thesaurus for synonyms and related words. So does "moldering" fit your meaning? or not?
    [Source: Merriam Webster Online Dictionary/Thesaurus]


    As it is followed by "fire" I think " a fire in decay" or "desintegrating" is not the correct choice in this case.
    But I shall look into the word as such, as it was unknown to me before
    Thank you, Frankie!

  9. #48
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    A 4-6-3 senryu.


    Most people die.
    I'm not like most people...
    Fingers crossed.

  10. #49
    Moderator VivaPalestina's Avatar
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    Like falling leaves
    Our hopes twist and decay,
    Trodden upon
    Last edited by VivaPalestina; 12-10-2012 at 04:05 PM.

  11. #50
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    You're the mod

    Like zis, mademoiselle:

    [ table="width: 500, align: center"]
    [ tr]
    [ td="align: center"]

    ENTER CENTERED TEXT HERE

    [ /td]
    [ /tr]
    [ /table]

    ...I added an empty space after the first bracket so the forum won't parse the code, remove the space and it will.

    Fastest way, and the way I do it:
    Go Advanced -> Table (the blueish square under "B", the button you use to make bold text) -> Rows 1, Columns 1, alignment Centered -> add the following into [td]:
    [ td="align:center"]

    Unnecessarily complicated, and vBulletin code allows for a simple one-button centered option in the tools menu. Don't ask me why it isn't activated on this site.


    ...and another superb senryu, a nicely symmetric 4-6-4 with a message I approve and applaud. *drums* tarararararaaaa...
    [solemn voice] I am OrchestraInside, and I approve this message. [/solemn voice] *drums*
    Last edited by Guest; 12-10-2012 at 03:59 PM.

  12. #51
    Moderator VivaPalestina's Avatar
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    Urgh I keep forgetting to type color instead of colour and now I'm expected to write center?

    You're the mod
    Believe me, there are many buttons I'm not familiar with. For instance I cant find this bluish thing under B I just about move threads and re-open threads. I like re-opening threads

    Thank you Ola what an ego boost.

  13. #52
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    Pfft. Whoever runs this site ought to add the missing tools to the tool menu. Another poetry site I'm on (www.thepoetryforum.co.uk) has them, and it's running an older version of vBulletin. Like any word processing program, there's a single button which lets you center any text you wish. Same for colouring words. Nevertheless, your senryu doesn't get worse for being a little leftist

  14. #53
    Moderator VivaPalestina's Avatar
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    I shall share your concerns with those in charge I'm feeling a bit tory today and left just wont do.

  15. #54
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    Yeah. In the meantime, all you need to do to center your award-winning senryu is to write (remove the empty space after the first bracket on every line):


    [ table="width: 500, align: center"]
    [ tr]
    [ td="align: center"]

    Like falling leaves;
    Our hopes twist and decay,
    Trodden upon.

    [ /td]
    [ /tr]
    [ /table]

    (BTW I think it would win even more awards without the semi-colon and the dot. The comma sits nicely.)

  16. #55
    Moderator VivaPalestina's Avatar
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    Done. Thank you. Do you think I should add 'and I can't format either' to my signature?

    Suggestion passed along. I put in the semi-colon in the hopes that clicking space and typing half way wouldnt make it move. Guess not.

  17. #56
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    "A tad daft but a wicked fast learner" should do just fine

  18. #57
    Senior Member Frankie Jasmine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VivaPalestina View Post

    Like falling leaves
    Our hopes twist and decay,
    Trodden upon
    Noor, this is excellent, and it very much 'speaks' for and to me. Thank you for sharing it. OI must have seen your natural talent from the start; I totally agree you're a natural. I think amaryn will be too, especially based upon his poetry thread.
    Last edited by Frankie Jasmine; 12-10-2012 at 06:26 PM.

  19. #58
    Senior Member amaryn's Avatar
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    door wide open
    your hand seeks out my hand
    total trust



    is this correct?

  20. #59
    Senior Member Frankie Jasmine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaryn View Post
    door wide open
    your hand seeks out my hand
    total trust


    is this correct?
    Amaryn, thank you for participating! This is a senryu, which has to do with human nature. Senryu is welcome on this thread!

    I wish to repeat part of OI's post which shared some important information, for our consideration:

    Quote Originally Posted by OrchestraInside View Post
    . . . I think that the original idea is to first say only very few words to attract attention to something, then describe it with slightly more words (middle line) and finish off with the "aha!" moment (last line). Of course, art is art and it may go any way. Just thought to point that out.

    I think that as long as one sees haikus as 'photographs' - frozen moments of time painted with a few strokes - then one is free to experiment with the rest. This also pertains to one of the most important parts of a haiku: quite like photographs, it is descriptive, but not definitive, that is, the adjectives used describe the scene but do not make any judgement of it (such as "beautiful", "good", "bad", "ugly"). Like this:

    Smi-ling cher-ry tree
    crown of whi-test fai-ry queens
    rest for wea-ry hearts

    This passes no judgement on the cherry tree, whereas:


    Be-loved cher-ry tree
    with her beau-ti-ful white crown
    I love her so much

    ...does so on every line.

    . . .

    Amaryn, I like your senryu!

    Assuming that senryu follow the same important characteristics as haiku . . . I leave it for you to decide if the phrase "total trust" is "making a judgment" or not.

    OWO: I like the idea and form of your senryu.

    Use of pronouns in senryu:

    Limiting the number of pronouns is in line with how senryu relate (per OI), compared to normal poetry.
    OWO: I think of it as a distancing of "self" . . . yet the brush-stroke descriptive words make the picture so vivid that it strikes the heart and mind. My comment is based on a "gut" feeling more than on a higher knowledge of the art.

    However, this is a "practice and learning" thread for most of us. I am a beginner too!

    I wish I had left my haiku(s) about December day as they originally were; then posted the corrections as new posts. I will do that from now on.
    Last edited by Frankie Jasmine; 12-15-2012 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Edit: To correct my own misconception about amaryn's haiku

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  22. #60
    Moderator VivaPalestina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie Jasmine View Post
    OI must have seen your natural talent from the start; I totally agree you're a natural.
    Did you Ola?

    Danke Frankie

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