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Thread: Kaiti Koullia - Perioli (paradosiako)

  1. #1
    Junior Member renehaentjens's Avatar
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    Default Kaiti Koullia - Perioli (paradosiako)

    The Greek lyrics are available in http://www.stixoi.info/stixoi.php?in...&song_id=45977

    What is the meaning of the word "framoloari" in the second line of the song?
    Τίνος είν' το περιόλι τούτο πού κρατούμεν όλοι
    που 'χει το φραμολοάρι και τη γη(ς) μαργαριτάρι.

    I have translated the song in Dutch but cannot find that one word in any dictionary...

    René Haentjens, Belgium

  2. #2
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    Thumbs up This question is not forgotten....

    This question is not forgotten....
    I have ended in some kind of conclusion but I want to be sure about it.
    So I just need some time in case I get an answer
    from a guy living in the island of Nisyros.

    I appriciate your effort translating this one in Dutch
    but you have to be patient for some days.
    "... διό καί αι τιμαί μεγάλαι, άν αποκτείνη τις ού κλέπτην αλλά τύραννον"
    Αριστοτέλης


    "... that's why there are great honors for the one who exterminates not the thief but the tyrant"
    Aristotle

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    Junior Member renehaentjens's Avatar
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    Default Might be = φλαμούρι

    Very kind of you to investigate for me, thank you!

    The best suggestion I got so far, from a Greek who manages a website with paradosiaka tragoudia, is that φραμολοάρι might be another spelling for φλαμούρι. But he wasn't sure either...

    René.

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    Junior Member renehaentjens's Avatar
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    There is also a phrase which is not present in most versions of the lyrics on internet nor in the music that I found on YouTube.
    But it does appear in the music that we are dancing to in our Greek dance society in Ghent:
    "το παπαδολοι ειναι αμα εβγετο και το γεννολοει να διαλεετο"

    A member of the Orpheus Hellenic Folklore Society, Chicago, USA wrote me:

    Start of quote

    If I would take a shot at this I would say that the phrase is related to the wishes for a good wedding that the lyrics mention before that.

    παπαδολοι means 'the priests in general'
    "το παπαδολοι ειναι αμα εβγετο", the priests to come out (when the wedding takes place?)
    "και το γεννολοει να διαλεετο" something related to birth, to predict a birth of a child (?, not sure)

    End of quote

  5. #5
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    So let's talk about it.
    The Nisyrian guy hasn't logged in the net since 27 jan,
    so I wasn't able to get an answer from an elder Nisyrian.
    But I think I've got the correct answer.

    The "Perioli" song is a Nisyrian one.
    The problem with the word you asked for its explanation is
    that DOESN'T exist.
    Or we may say that the person who wrote the lyrics in the net
    learnt it by singing and knew it "by heart".

    After a quick search in the net, I found these links:
    1) http://kanellatou.gr/en/music-archiv...o-perioli.html
    2) http://www.nisyriakesmeletes.gr/images/16.pdf

    The first one is a site I visited for the second time and has a
    magnificent work of a woman who collects data about the Greek islands'
    and Minor Asias' songs.
    The second one is a research about Nisyros, where in page 241 you can find
    the same story about the "Perioli".

    So let's see what happened:
    The one who wrote the lyrics wrongly sings "φραμολοάρι "
    instead of "φραμό λοάρι" which comes from "φραμός + λοάρι"
    or more accurately "φραμός + λογάρι"

    Now φραμός means φραγμός (barrier) - περίφραξη (fence)
    and λογάρι means θυσαυρός = treasure or χρυσάφι=gold (as notice no55 says in the 2nd link) .

    So what's the actual meaning of the lyrics?
    Back in the years that thιs tradition started,
    virginity was a matter of honour.
    The bride had to be a virgin.
    So this is what these lyrics are saying:

    που ‘χει το φραμό λοάρι
    that guards her fence as if it was a treasure
    και την γη μαργαριτάρι
    and so the land of (hers) is pure like a pearl


    So in this case we are facing a METAPHOR
    that περιβόλι= περιόλι (garden) is actually the bride herself.


    As for your second question, I'm not sure either.
    This time the contex doesn't help me at all, sorry mate!

    I hope I helped and I apologize for the delay.

    Ps: It would be wonderfull to post your final translation in the forum!
    Last edited by Amethystos; 02-16-2012 at 07:50 PM.
    "... διό καί αι τιμαί μεγάλαι, άν αποκτείνη τις ού κλέπτην αλλά τύραννον"
    Αριστοτέλης


    "... that's why there are great honors for the one who exterminates not the thief but the tyrant"
    Aristotle

  6. #6
    Junior Member renehaentjens's Avatar
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    Default Super!

    Thanks for the work you put in this, Amethystos! I'll post my final translation as requested.

    Here's what I received from the Greek dance instructor in Chicago:

    "φραμολοάρι" is the fence (φράχτης) around the yard (περιβολιού)

    "αμα εβγετο" means if the priests gathered up for the event (wedding)

    "και το γεννολοει να διαλεετο" they selected the family which people will get married, it might mean also select the members of the family that will be invited to the wedding.

    Or in Greek:
    Το φραμολοάρι είναι ο φράχτης του περιβολιού. Αναφέρεται στους παπάδες της περιοχής
    "να μαεύγετο" που σημαίνει να μαζεύονταν (να μαζεύονταν οι παπάδες για το γεγονός).
    Το γεννολόι να διαλέετο σημαίνει να διάλεγαν τη γενιά -το σόι δηλ. με το οποίο
    θα συμπεθεριάσουν. Επίσης ,εννοεί και τα μέλη της γενιάς ,(σόι),που θα καλεστούν στον γάμο.

  7. #7
    Junior Member renehaentjens's Avatar
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    I'm not sure whether this is of any use to the readers of this forum, but here is, as promised, my current Dutch translation. Corrections and suggestions for improvements are always welcome. This translation has also been posted in www.stixoi.info.

    René.

    Tuin

    Van wie is deze tuin? We houden allen staande:
    achter de gouden omheining ligt een parel in de aarde.

    - Hallo, dag jonge bruidegom, daar liep je ze achterna,
    die rosse patrijs, die mooie rozelaar!
    - Van mijn reis kwam ik terug en in haar tuin vond ik ze;
    ze gaf haar basilicum water en ze snoeide haar munt.

    Naar welke bruiloft ik ook ging, zo'n bruid zag ik nooit,
    met een voorhoofd (zo blank als de) maan, lieftallig en trots.

    Bovenin de rozelaar heeft de patrijs een nest gemaakt;
    de patrijs zit te peinzen en de blaadjes van de rozelaar ruisen.

    (De goeie mama zegt: “al het beste met je huwelijk, mijn dochter”;
    de priesters komen naar het gebeuren, over de genodigden wordt beslist.)

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to renehaentjens For This Useful Post:
    Amethystos (02-27-2012)

  9. #8
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    Red face Thank you my friend !



    And I can assure you that there will be people in the future that
    will visit this thread.... (it has already 199 curious visitors)

    It seems to me that there's a connection with the "Kastro tis Astropalias"
    the thread of which has already 428 views -> http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/gr...ht=astropalias
    "... διό καί αι τιμαί μεγάλαι, άν αποκτείνη τις ού κλέπτην αλλά τύραννον"
    Αριστοτέλης


    "... that's why there are great honors for the one who exterminates not the thief but the tyrant"
    Aristotle

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