What does "Γλεντζεδικο" mean in relation to "Οση γλυκα εχουνε τα χειλοι

In his repertoire sheet here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...80642063,d.eXY

Konstantin Piperdis characterizes "Οση γλυκα εχουνε τα χειλοι" by the term "Γλεντζεδικο".

What does "Γλεντζεδικο" mean literally and what does it mean in relation to the song?

I count out the song as a 7/8, and if this is correct, I would have thought the song would be characterized as some kind of kalamatiano.

Am I counting it wrong, or are there 7/8's other than kalamatianos?

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

Konstantin Piperdis characterizes "Οση γλυκα εχουνε τα χειλοι" by the term "Γλεντζεδικο".

What does "Γλεντζεδικο" mean literally and what does it mean in relation to the song?

Γλεντζεδικο is something that can turn people's mood high by singing or dancing with it

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

I count out the song as a 7/8, and if this is correct, I would have thought the song would be characterized as some kind of kalamatiano.

Am I counting it wrong, or are there 7/8's other than kalamatianos?

Not a musician, but tempo is 2/4 according to this -> http://bouzouki-place.blogspot.gr/2009/09/midi_22.html

Ps. Please try opening threads which do not request a translation (like this one), in the
"Speaking Greek language & chit-chat off-topic discussions" Sub-forum.
Thread moved

Damn! I thought I heard a little tiny bit of tsiftetelli in the accompaniment which WOULD make it a 2/4, not a 7/8. But I wasn't sure ... anyway, thanks for the understanding of "Γλεντζεδικο"

PS -

Here's the 7/8 kalamatiano rhythm - watch the beats on 1,3,4, and 6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtRf8wC9ZQc

The 3,4,6 beats can actually almost be overlaid on the last three of the five beats of the tsiftetelli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omJ0k-Sf0RY

- that's what was confusing me.

But the tsiftelli has that exta beat right after "1" which really makes it completely different in feeling.

Great Topic!
I am also thinking a lot about this.

For me I found out that sometimes the 7/8 rhythms are played Kind of differently according to the Region the folk music belongs to.

Tsifetelli in greek means often Music with an oriental mood (often with darboukka)
The word tsifetelli has ist origin in the turkish language and means "2 strings" .

There is an arabic rhythm called CHIFTETELLI whigh is a 4/4 rhythm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_piqRR1uck



By the way Salisbury Hills by Peter Gabriel is 7/8 rhythm, too!

Hi Tahira - nice to make your acquaintance.

You're actually correct - the tsifetelli drum loop that I posted was also 4/4, like the Arabic 4/4 ciftetelli you posted, whereas Amethystos posted a link to the tabs for a 2/4 tsiftetelli. "2/4's" are generally played faster than "4/4's" (even in western music, where 2/4's are called "double-time"), and if I'm remembering correctly, that's why the professional dancers I saw in the clubs every weekend (years ago!) used the Arabic 4/4 - the slower tempo was more sensuous and gave them more of a chance to be really "intepretative" of the rhythm.

Personally, I like the Arabic version best when it's played with every other measure like

1-2-3-4-FIVE

with a hold on the last four beats.

So, Amethystos, I assume (?) that the term "Γλεντζεδικο" is related to the word "γλεντήσουμε" in this song:

Όταν πίνεις στην ταβέρνα - 1947

Όταν πίνεις στην ταβέρνα
κάθεσαι και δε μιλάς
Κάπου κάπου αναστενάζεις
απ’ τα φύλλα της καρδιάς

Θα `θελα να σε ρωτήσω
και να πληροφορηθώ
Πιο μεράκι σ’ έχει κάνει
τόσο μελαγχολικό

Μήπως έχεις αγαπήσει
και προδόθηκες κι εσύ
Έλα κάθισε κοντά μας
να γλεντήσουμε μαζί

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BLYVkm8pDc

Hi David, I am back, I was in a hurry before and read it all again.
My first thoughts were surrounding the kalamatianos.

But now I was looking for the song "osi glyka axoun ta xilia" and for me it is also a 2/4 rhythm.
The arabic Name for this rhythm is "Malfouf"


The rhythm you posted above (I copy your lines in the following)
[I]The 3,4,6 beats can actually almost be overlaid on the last three of the five beats of the tsiftetelli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omJ0k-Sf0RY[/I]

is known to me as the arabic rhythm called Balady or Masmoudi (4/4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOo9JnojhIk


As far as I understand "Kalamatiano" is the name of a dance and not the name of the rhythm.
the same goes for Kashlimar; it's the name of a dance with 9/8 rhythm but not the name for the rhythm itself.

But I just started to learn about greek folkloric rhythms and folkloric dances, and I would be grateful for more details concerning all this.

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

So, Amethystos, I assume (?) that the term "Γλεντζεδικο" is related to the word "γλεντήσουμε" in this song:

Γλεντώ in it's authentic description means "I'm having fun".

Hi Tahira -

Thanks for the names of the Arabic equivalents of the Greek 2/4 tsiftetelli (malfouf) and the Greek 4/4 tsiftetelli (balady or masmoudi).

I agree that kalamatiano is technically the name of the Greek national dance done to a 7/8 rhythm, just like zeibekiko is technically the name of the Greek dance usually danced solo to a 9/8 rhythm counted:

1/8 + 1/16 + 1/16 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/16 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8

(not the 9/8 Turkish and Greek karsilamar, which as you know is 1/4 1/4 1/4 1/8 1/8 1/8, like bam bam bam da da da.)

But here's the thing - so far as I know, Greeks have no separate names for their rhythms like the Arabic cultures do. So the names of the dances are also used to characterize songs sung to the rhythms of the dances, even when no dancing is involved.

For example, if someone in a Greek club asks the house band to stop playing so many hasapiko's and start playing some zeibekiko's, it doesn't mean that the person necessarily wants to get up and dance a zeibekiko. He (or she) may just want to hear some songs in the rhythm of the zeibekiko dance instead of the hasapiko dance. (I know I always used to like to hear zebekiko's in clubs even though I can't dance a step, simply because I was usually crying over some lost love.)

If I'm wrong about this, I hope someone will post to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct in what I'm saying here.

Thanks very much, Amethystos - that's simple enough. I have 2 years of Attic Greek and 1 year of Homeric Greek (plus too many years of trying without success to understand Kazantzakis' Cretan idioms), so I will have to go to my ancient Liddell-Scott dictionary and see if Γλεντώ was around as a word way back then, or whether it's pure modern demotic. (I don't think it would exist in katharevousa, because no one is supposed to have fun in university or church - heh heh heh.)

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

But here's the thing - so far as I know, Greeks have no separate names for their rhythms like the Arabic cultures do. So the names of the dances are also used to characterize songs sung to the rhythms of the dances, even when no dancing is involved.

Yes, you are right.
And when dancing they count the steps and not the meter. So for example Kalamationos has 12 steps.
I am learning at the moment that there is another "strategy" of dancing.


For example, if someone in a Greek club asks the house band to stop playing so many hasapiko's and start playing some zeibekiko's, it doesn't mean that the person necessarily wants to get up and dance a zeibekiko. He (or she) may just want to hear some songs in the rhythm of the zeibekiko dance instead of the hasapiko dance. (I know I always used to like to hear zebekiko's in clubs even though I can't dance a step, simply because I was usually crying over some lost love.)

For me hasapiko an zeibekiko have a different mood....different expression of mood.
But I was raised in a small town with almost no greek community, no Clubs, no festivals; so this is just my inner Feeling.
But I am sure Amethystos can answer this properly.

Yes, Tahira - I think everyone would agree with you that the feelings or moods conveyed by the hasapiko and zeibekiko are different.

In fact, I read somewhere that the zeibekiko songs originally sung by the early rebetiko performers are considered the "blues" of Greece (meaning like US "blues").

Originally Posted by David Halitsky

But here's the thing - so far as I know, Greeks have no separate names for their rhythms like the Arabic cultures do. So the names of the dances are also used to characterize songs sung to the rhythms of the dances, even when no dancing is involved.

For example, if someone in a Greek club asks the house band to stop playing so many hasapiko's and start playing some zeibekiko's, it doesn't mean that the person necessarily wants to get up and dance a zeibekiko. He (or she) may just want to hear some songs in the rhythm of the zeibekiko dance instead of the hasapiko dance. (I know I always used to like to hear zebekiko's in clubs even though I can't dance a step, simply because I was usually crying over some lost love.)

If I'm wrong about this, I hope someone will post to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct in what I'm saying here.

Originally Posted by Tahira

For me hasapiko an zeibekiko have a different mood....different expression of mood.
But I was raised in a small town with almost no greek community, no Clubs, no festivals; so this is just my inner Feeling.
But I am sure Amethystos can answer this properly.

Well I've already quoted that I'm NOT a musician.

But I believe you're both right.
Tahira describes the feeling in a marvelous way!; cause Greeks haven't learned to distinguish rhythms, but they've learned to address their feeling to songs written in specific rhythms.
So yes David Halitsky, we ask for zebekikos to be played even if we don't wanna dance them (for me at least, the only way for a descent zebekiko being danced, is to be done by a MAN which has got some serious feelings to express).

But after all ... everyone wants to listen to a good chassapiko every now and then don't you think so my friends?

[475CACIPIRQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=475CACIPIRQ[/video]

Video blocked in Germany.... as so many times :-(

Originally Posted by Tahira

Video blocked in Germany.... as so many times :-(

Not the end of the world ... search for Καιτη Γαρμπη - Χαμενα at any search engine!

Yes, not the end of the world, but very anoying all the time.....
I was special interested in the Dance, of this Video.
Searchign with other search engines doesn't bring better results.
The Videos are blocked due to some rights of the Music licenzes. :-(

Hey Amethystos - you probably know this already, but speaking of "Γλεντζεδικο", there's a station from Greece that streams live on the web

http://www.glentifm.gr/

and the playlist seems to be ALL laika/rebetiko.

Also, there are three or four other web stations on this list:

http://www.listenlive.eu/greece.html

that just play laika also.