Rijeka is close to Istra, I hear it's pretty nice there. Do you know Turkish? It is kind of surprising to find someone from Croatia interested in Turkey.
I lived on island of Ciovo near Trogir for two years, and still have a house there. I think the Adriatic coast must be similar to Turkey's Mediterranean coast. You do miss the sea living in Canada...
Official Croatian has a lot of different nouns and some different grammar from the Bosnian. Plus a lot of dialects, some of which I can't understand at all.
For example Tko in Bosnian is Ko. Although I like the Kto used by Mak Dizdar in his poetry. English is my main language now and I know it better than any other.
I actually have an American friend who learned Croatian. He learned it when he went to school there in 70s. He was also a war photographer in Croatia and Bosnia in 90s... very interesting guy.
It interesting how many Turkish words are in our language. I find new ones fairly often. Like in the post below the word düğme, also exists in Bosnian as dugme (not sure if it's the same in Croatian).
Hi,
Sorry i wasn't here since my last message - I am actually on my vacation and going everywhere.... haven't got really a time but still....
Yes Rijeka is clos eto istria and Istria is oh my god beautiful..... marvelous - and Alp I'll take you there if you come....
Just two days ago we were in a small town of Grožnjan - foa JAZZ IS BACK kind of happenning going on every year. However - you see alp you might not enjoy jazz but there were Čevapi to eat too - so at least you'd feel closer to home ))
.... So you said you wre living in Čiovo - my very good friend was born there and lived through her childhood and back in 2003. I spent my vacation there - Okrug Gornji was her house settled. Trogir is aslo very - very beautiful. How come you ended up in Canada ???
I have discovered Turkey as something interested to me - still don't know why but I let it take me and will discover along the way. Everything about it seems very familiar to me and that's how I decided to check it out.
And yes a lot of words are similar - and even we in Croatia use it - but because they remained after Turkey ruling in Balkas and eastern europe. For example I am not sure but i think Đezva (as bosnian) for the thing you prepare Turkish coffe in might be the same.
Of course ČEVAP - very well known - yes jastuk and gumb .... but in Croatia there are many dialects..... like for gumb here in primorje and Kvarner you will hear BOTUN, or PUC etc.
Even here in Rijeka you have 3 different dialects in language - some words very different to understand...
Like Serbian language - it is Slavic but some words are said completely different - like you'll notice that MLIJEKO (milk) in Croatian is actually MLEKO in Serbian, but KRUH (bread) in Croatian is actually called HLEB in Serbian.
Etc. but mostly we understand each other.....
I am sure we'll find some more similarities.... like Alp you remember you told me Sorun Yok (means no problem)..... 'cause if in Serbia or bosnia or even sometimes Croatia somebody asks you whether you did something or not (and you didn't) they would answer JOK - in Serbia JOK BRE, in Bosnia JOK BA in Croatia JOK (but rarely)
nice to know you Saan.....and keep writing to us !
Merhaba Seda and people!!
I am back here after one week holiday... So i am back with other doubts of turkish language and i have a question about "dir". Is this verb "to be"? How we use "dir" as verb to be? And why "dir" is often hiden like in expressions "vardır" and "yoktur"? Because most of time i can read: "Param yok" = "I don't have money" and not "Param yoktur"?
Thanks!
welcome again lesenna! I hope you had a nice holiday. And about your questions...
"-DIr" is the verb "to be" yes. For example, you say "she is a teacher" in english, "is" is the verb to be. And the turkish equivalent of that sentence is "O bir öğretmendir." As you see, "-dir" is the verb "to be". This is a very simple example.
Let's have a look at your example: "Param yok" I don't have money. "-DIr" is hidden there because we don't say "param yoktur" to express our having no money. I mean especially in speech, we say it without "-DIr" but also in writing. Let's change the example: "Parası yoktur." She/He don't have money . " when you say "yoktur" here, you might mean two things. First; you're sure about her/him for having no money and you say "yoktur", I mean it "-DIr" expresses sureness here. Second, you talk about the possibility of her/him having no money and you use "yoktur", I mean you talk about a possibility and your sentence means "maybe she doesn't have money". As you see, this sentence might have different meanings according to your usage of it. So, "param yok/ parası yok" is better for saying what you meant. I hope I didn't confuse you. If so, tell me ok? Have a nice day
__________________
" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
Last edited by bogazici86 : 08-07-2007 at 11:56 PM.
Sorry i wasn't here since my last message - I am actually on my vacation and going everywhere.... haven't got really a time but still....
Yes Rijeka is clos eto istria and Istria is oh my god beautiful..... marvelous - and Alp I'll take you there if you come....
Just two days ago we were in a small town of Grožnjan - foa JAZZ IS BACK kind of happenning going on every year. However - you see alp you might not enjoy jazz but there were Čevapi to eat too - so at least you'd feel closer to home ))
.... So you said you wre living in Čiovo - my very good friend was born there and lived through her childhood and back in 2003. I spent my vacation there - Okrug Gornji was her house settled. Trogir is aslo very - very beautiful. How come you ended up in Canada ???
I have discovered Turkey as something interested to me - still don't know why but I let it take me and will discover along the way. Everything about it seems very familiar to me and that's how I decided to check it out.
And yes a lot of words are similar - and even we in Croatia use it - but because they remained after Turkey ruling in Balkas and eastern europe. For example I am not sure but i think Đezva (as bosnian) for the thing you prepare Turkish coffe in might be the same.
Of course ČEVAP - very well known - yes jastuk and gumb .... but in Croatia there are many dialects..... like for gumb here in primorje and Kvarner you will hear BOTUN, or PUC etc.
Even here in Rijeka you have 3 different dialects in language - some words very different to understand...
Like Serbian language - it is Slavic but some words are said completely different - like you'll notice that MLIJEKO (milk) in Croatian is actually MLEKO in Serbian, but KRUH (bread) in Croatian is actually called HLEB in Serbian.
Etc. but mostly we understand each other.....
I am sure we'll find some more similarities.... like Alp you remember you told me Sorun Yok (means no problem)..... 'cause if in Serbia or bosnia or even sometimes Croatia somebody asks you whether you did something or not (and you didn't) they would answer JOK - in Serbia JOK BRE, in Bosnia JOK BA in Croatia JOK (but rarely)
nice to know you Saan.....and keep writing to us !
I have recently had Cevape. Here in the city there is a so called Heritage festival where many countries showcase they cuisine and other features.
Needless to say, food in Europe is much better than in North America...
To me the Dalmatian accent sounds funny, saying Lipo instead of Lijepo, or reka instead of rekao or reko'. Zagorski dialect is very different from Croat language and sounds like Slovenian to me. In Bosnia I've heard jok being used, but there are also other words which are not used in Serb or Croat, like rahat or hajir.
...And also, I have no idea what gumb means (I do know what gumba means though )
I think Okrug Gornji is where my house is, I've actually found it on satellite photographs on Google maps.
As to how I ended up in Canada, that's kind of a long story, and perhaps this forum is not the best place to talk about that.... if you are interested you can pm me.
Merhaba Seda and people!!
I am back here after one week holiday... So i am back with other doubts of turkish language and i have a question about "dir". Is this verb "to be"? How we use "dir" as verb to be? And why "dir" is often hiden like in expressions "vardır" and "yoktur"? Because most of time i can read: "Param yok" = "I don't have money" and not "Param yoktur"?
Thanks!
param yok and param yoktur is same..but ''dir''gives much more certainty..
but generally we use it like boğaziçi says 2nd way..means posibility..
and also we usally use -dır for general and certain things for example:
bir yıl 365 gün'dür' one year is 365 days
or
inşaat alanına girmek tehlikeli ve yasak'tır' to enter to the building land is dangreaous and not allowed
may be that was a bad example anyway:d
u can also say bir yıl 365 gün stuff..the sentences with 'dır' sound formal
welcome again lesenna! I hope you had a nice holiday. And about your questions...
"-DIr" is the verb "to be" yes. For example, you say "she is a teacher" in english, "is" is the verb to be. And the turkish equivalent of that sentence is "O bir öğretmendir." As you see, "-dir" is the verb "to be". This is a very simple example.
Thank you so much, Seda, i could understand perfecty about the example i've given before here. And now about the first example you gave me: Do i have write (or say) "O bir öğretmendir" always? If i write only "O bir öğretmen" is wrong?
Better, when i have to use "dir" verb? And what is its infinitive?
Another example:
Bu çocuk çalışkandır. (This child is studious.) -> I've read before the -dır is optional...
Well, as i could understand what alp said, "-dir" sounds more formal
alp is right, "-DIr" expresses certainty when it's used in general sentences (as alp's example sentences), param yok and param yoktur are the same but it's not a general certain thing not to have money, so "param yok" is better.
"O bir Öğretmen. " isn't wrong. we generally say it in this way, there is no difference in meaning, you don't have to use "-DIr" there.
Infinitive? In fact, -"DIr" is like the auxilary verb "to be". "to be " has different forms like "am, is, are", and "-DIr" also has several forms like "dır, dir, dur, dür". Think in this way. Yeah, "-Dır" is more formal. you can say "bu çocuk çalışkan", it isn't wrong. I hope you get my explanations, if not, ask again please
__________________
" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
Turkish has approximately 59,000,000 speakers. and it is the official language in Turkey and Northern Cyprus. Home speakers live in Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Serbia and Montenegro.
Alp... What can I say? You're crazy! I'm just surprised! You are a very very good friend. I'm lucky for a having a friend like you! you are very special for me. thank you for remembering me; I'm a bit sensitive today, you'll make you cry but because of happiness... Çok teşekkür ederim canım arkadaşım Sen harika bir insansın. (you're a wonderful person....)
__________________
" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
Last edited by bogazici86 : 08-09-2007 at 07:40 AM.
alp is right, "-DIr" expresses certainty when it's used in general sentences (as alp's example sentences), param yok and param yoktur are the same but it's not a general certain thing not to have money, so "param yok" is better.
"O bir Öğretmen. " isn't wrong. we generally say it in this way, there is no difference in meaning, you don't have to use "-DIr" there.
Infinitive? In fact, -"DIr" is like the auxilary verb "to be". "to be " has different forms like "am, is, are", and "-DIr" also has several forms like "dır, dir, dur, dür". Think in this way. Yeah, "-Dır" is more formal. you can say "bu çocuk çalışkan", it isn't wrong. I hope you get my explanations, if not, ask again please
-DIr is one of those mysterious Turkish suffixes like -mIş. You are not sure why it's there or what it means exactly, but you'll be in trouble if you don't use it correctly
Actually, the Turkish suffix dictionary defines -DIr as a particle. And, supposedly, adding it as a suffix means he/she/it is. Like Türktür means he/she/it is a Turk.
you're right saan. It expresses the third person sing. as you said "Türktür" (he/she/it is a Turk." In fact , the suffix "-DIr" exists in other persons, too like Ben Türküm-(dür)". (I'm a Turk.) But we don't generally use it with "-DIr".
__________________
" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
1) What's the difference between "bana", "sana"... and "benim için", "senin için"... for example?
I know those mean "for me", "for you"... but for example "bana" and "sana" are pronouns and "benim için", "senin için" are not pronouns... Or not? Are they pronouns too?
2) Have i did them right? Benim için
Senin için
Onun için
Bizim için
Sizin için
Onların için
3) Maybe i can wrongly translating "bana" (and other persons so on) as "for me", or is it mean "to me"? Are there differences amongst them?
4) I remembered this verse from Kayahan's songs Bir Aşk Hikayesi (i'll have another question about the pronoun in this sentence, but i'll ask about it later )
"Bu güller senin için..." -> "These roses are for you" for compare with another sentence, for example, when i say to someone "Iyi geceler", the answer will be "sana da" -> "for you too"... now i can compare these "sana" and "senin için". Aren't they the same? or am i confusing about it?
1) What's the difference between "bana", "sana"... and "benim için", "senin için"... for example?
I know those mean "for me", "for you"... but for example "bana" and "sana" are pronouns and "benim için", "senin için" are not pronouns... Or not? Are they pronouns too?
2) Have i did them right? Benim için
Senin için
Onun için
Bizim için
Sizin için
Onların için
3) Maybe i can wrongly translating "bana" (and other persons so on) as "for me", or is it mean "to me"? Are there differences amongst them?
4) I remembered this verse from Kayahan's songs Bir Aşk Hikayesi (i'll have another question about the pronoun in this sentence, but i'll ask about it later )
"Bu güller senin için..." -> "These roses are for you" for compare with another sentence, for example, when i say to someone "Iyi geceler", the answer will be "sana da" -> "for you too"... now i can compare these "sana" and "senin için". Aren't they the same? or am i confusing about it?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that bana means to me, whereas benim için means for me. I'm not sure however, if they can be used interchangeably even in some circumstances. I think technically bana is the dative and benim is the genitive declination of the word ben. The cases are probably harder to understand for someone who doesn't know a language which has grammatical cases in it. In English you would use me in both cases, kind of makes you wish every language was as simple
1) What's the difference between "bana", "sana"... and "benim için", "senin için"... for example?
I know those mean "for me", "for you"... but for example "bana" and "sana" are pronouns and "benim için", "senin için" are not pronouns... Or not? Are they pronouns too?
2) Have i did them right? Benim için
Senin için
Onun için
Bizim için
Sizin için
Onların için
3) Maybe i can wrongly translating "bana" (and other persons so on) as "for me", or is it mean "to me"? Are there differences amongst them?
4) I remembered this verse from Kayahan's songs Bir Aşk Hikayesi (i'll have another question about the pronoun in this sentence, but i'll ask about it later
"Bu güller senin için..." -> "These roses are for you" for compare with another sentence, for example, when i say to someone "Iyi geceler", the answer will be "sana da" -> "for you too"... now i can compare these "sana" and "senin için". Aren't they the same? or am i confusing about it?
Merhaba lesenna,
1- "bana" means sometimes "for me" and sometimes "to me". so, the translation changes according to the context or several usages. Pronouns are the things which are used instead of the names, I mean, the names are replaced by pronouns. so, "Bana" and "benim" are pronouns but "benim için" is not. It is "for me".
2-You wrote one of them wrongly: not "onlarIN için" but "ONLAR İÇİN".
3- As I said, "bana" sometimes means "to me" and sometimes "for me":
e.g. Onu bana ver. Give it to me.
Onu bana aldı. He/She bought it for me.
I cannot give you a rule on this because you should know the usages in different contexts, with different verbs. So, you should read so much.
4- "bu güller senin için." these roses are for you.
"İyi geceler. " "sana da" (for you, too)
In these two sentences, the meanings of both "senin için" and "sana" are the same. The roses are for her. And the one who is said "good night" wishes a good night for that person. so, she says "sana da", she means " I wish a good night for you, too". Although the meanings are the same, while saying "for you, too", we use "sana da", there is no reason, we use it in that way. ok? so you should get the usages by reading so much
Have a good day canım
__________________
" Haddeden geçmiş nezâket yâl ü bâl olmuş sana
Mey süzülmüş şîşeden ruhsar-ı âl olmuş sana "
Nedim
))
and i have a question about "dir". Is this verb "to be"? How we use "dir" as verb to be? And why "dir" is often hiden like in expressions "vardır" and "yoktur"? Because most of time i can read: "Param yok" = "I don't have money" and not "Param yoktur"?
Alp... What can I say? You're crazy! I'm just surprised! You are a very very good friend. I'm lucky for a having a friend like you! you are very special for me. thank you for remembering me; I'm a bit sensitive today, you'll make you cry but because of happiness... Çok teşekkür ederim canım arkadaşım
Help again... Bana x Benim için
