Learning Romanian language

For the gerund use I'll explain later, as I have to go now.

For dumneavoastra: yes, this is always used when you talk to a person who is: older than you, higher in authority, someone you don't know very well, etc.

It is the politeness pronoun and not only in use, but compulsory if you don't want to be considered rude.

So I should never refer to someone as "voi"?

Originally Posted by DeBaires

So I should never refer to someone as "voi"?

Exactly. You don't talk to one person and use the pronoun "voi".

The verb, on the other hand, has the same form for voi and dumneavoastra. In other words, when addressing one person(or more persons with whom you talk with "dumneavoastra") you say:

Dumneavostra veniti cu noi? (Do you come with us?)

NOT

Voi veniti cu noi?

Sorry, just to be clear.

You use dumneavoastra when talking to both ONE person you don't know as well as to a group of people?

Exactly:

To ONE person you don't know as well as to a group of people you don't know.( Because if it is a group of friends you'll talk to them using "voi").

It's in the General Discussion Forum, here:
http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/ge...-olympics.html

I will ask the moderators to move the last few posts from this thread in that one

I've seen the imperative form for a aduce is both 'adu', and 'ada(' with the little special a at the end.. Can i just use adu for everything? Why are there 2 imperative forms?

thanks
dave

Thank you for the response.. I don't quite understand everything you said. Let me try to say it back to you.. Adu is indeed the imperative form for a aduce.
(Tu) adu= me telling you to bring something... Now in real usage, I'd likely say (Tu) adu-mi, which means to bring ME something.. But if we were leaving for a hiking trip, and I wanted to tell you to bring water(for yourself, not to me), couldn't I say " adu niste apa"

Also, the book I've been using to learn lists both adu and ada as the imperative forms for a aduce. You write that 'ada' means 'give' above. I'm used to 'da' being the imperative form for 'a da', which is to give, but I've never before seen 'ada' used..

I spoke with my romanian friend, who is american and left romania in 1983, so his romanian is not what it once was.. but he said he'd heard people use 'ada' and he just always thought it was bad grammar, which is really what you're saying.. But why is it in my textbook??

I do not see 'ada' listed on the online romanian translation websites by the way..

dave

Hello, Rudaire Let me explain things for you.

(Tigress Tim, I'm sorry for the corrections I bring to your post but they are necessary if we want to help people here. )

First of all, and very important if you want to learn the right spelling :
adu-mi & adă-mi

Second: Rudaire, you're absolutely right: Adu is used when you ask someone to bring something, but not necesarily to you.

Your example with adu niște apă is perfect.

Also, there's nothing wrong in using this word, the only " rule" would be to use "te rog" near it so as not to make it sound like an order. But that's the same in English. Saying, "Please, bring me something" is more polite than the simple "Bring me something!"

Now, regarding adă. I'm sorry to contradict tigress tim, but this form is nothing else but a regionalism of adu. In other words, it is not the literar form, it's the form people use in certain regions of the country. I'm sure you're familiar with the notion of dialect and with the fact that the dialect is not a sign of lack of education, is just a way of pronouncing or using some words in a slightly different way.

To summarize, adă means bring and it has nothing to do with the verb to give.

I hope things are clear now

Of course ! I'm sorry rudaire for leading you to a wrong direction ! It was late last night That's probably it ...Anyway, sorry dya ! And it's oka, sure we don't want people starting to learn romanian on the left foot

Sorry, i even deleted thread, it was stupid I shouldn't have said anything !

It's ok, tigress tim, we all make mistakes

Originally Posted by dya

The imperative for the second person singular is Știi! (incidentally, it's the same form like for the present tense - tu știi) but the verb in itself can't actually be used in imperative. Imperative is about giving a command/order and the meaning of the verb is "against" this. You can't order someone to know!

Thank you for all your help dya and also tigress tim... I really appreciate it..

Dya, I disagree with what you've said above. I believe you can 'order' someone to know. I can say, (Tu) stii ca te iubesc, where the stii is imperative. Or I could use the softer imperative, sa stii ca te iubesc.. Am I wrong about this?? I mean this to read " KNOW! that I love you, like as if this is being questioned by my love. I do not mean for it to read "You know that I love you", where I'm simply stating know in the present tense.. I mean I'm telling you, "Know that I love you (I command you to know this..)

Long ago, with a former US president, in his campaign he repeatedly said "NO new taxes", meaning he wouldn't raise taxes, or that he would say 'no' to new taxes. After he became president he raised taxes, and the joke was that what he really meant was "KNOW new taxes", as if he was ordering us to know that there would be new taxes. Of course NO and KNOW sound exactly the same, so that was the big joke...

dave

No No ! What I did was really stupid
Just say it ..I don't mind

Ahhh .. "100" ? You should celebrate !!! If there is any cake ..will I get a piece from it ?

Rudaire, no need to thank me

Originally Posted by tigress_tim

No No ! What I did was really stupid
Just say it ..I don't mind

Ahhh .. "100" ? You should celebrate !!! If there is any cake ..will I get a piece from it ?

Rudaire, no need to thank me

OK, so I won't thank you for that specific response, but I do appreciate your willingness to help people like me on this forum... I've deleted your quote from my response since you seem to regret making it..

paa..
d

Ahhh ! Thank you so much ! yes I regret :P A looot !!
So anytime you need me, for other things than grammar lesson
Feel freee to ask

Take care dave,

Tim

I'm sorry for the delay, rudaire, but I had to check before answering you

I'm not sure that in your example (Stii ca te iubesc) there is an imperative. Maybe in a context of screaming at somebody who doesn't seem to get it

Other ways of explaining this verb's imperative would be:
Stii! ( in a context like: O my God, you KNOW!!)
Stii!( You really know it!)
Stii! ( Come on, concentrate, you know it!)

But, still, these are just nuances. The truth is that there are verbs who can't have imperative from a logical point of view. True that you can add a shade to whatever you say, so in this context, basically every verb can be used in the imperative.

Tigress Tim I'll let you know about the cake

Originally Posted by dya

I'm sorry for the delay, rudaire, but I had to check before answering you

I'm not sure that in your example (Stii ca te iubesc) there is an imperative. Maybe in a context of screaming at somebody who doesn't seem to get it

Other ways of explaining this verb's imperative would be:
Stii! ( in a context like: O my God, you KNOW!!)
Stii!( You really know it!)
Stii! ( Come on, concentrate, you know it!)

But, still, these are just nuances. The truth is that there are verbs who can't have imperative from a logical point of view. True that you can add a shade to whatever you say, so in this context, basically every verb can be used in the imperative.

Tigress Tim I'll let you know about the cake

thank you again dya. let's see if we agree on the following 3 uses..

if I say:
write that I love you, I'm commanding you to write it
say that I love you, I'm commanding you to say it
repeat that I love you, I'm commanding you to repeat it

similarly,
think about how much i love you, I'm commanding you to think about it,

and last
know that I love you, I'm commanding you to know it..

Now if i phrase the last two in a question, it is no longer commanding, and can even have a different meaning to use the 'know' or 'think' in present tense..

You think that I love you? Is no longer commanding.

You know that I love you? if said as a question is someone who is surprised that someone else thinks the first person loves the second..

You know that I love you. Not a question, is simply a statement, and in this case know is again present tense, not commanding or imperative..

But
'know that I love you', just as much as 'repeat after me' seems like a commanding use in english at least...

just like
"remember your password' is a statement commanding you to not forget your password..

but
'I remember my password' is simply the present tense of remember..

I was under the impression that there were some verbs that didn't have commanding forms, like a vrea, a sosi, a ploua...

Wait, the book I'm looking at to find verbs without imperative forms agrees with you that there is no imperative form for a sti

I think I understand where I went wrong..

In english, we'll often use the word 'know' in the same place as 'understand'...... and the book I'm looking at does indeed have a form for understand that is imperative....

Does it make more sense to say,
"intelege ca te iubesc"

If it does, than maybe I fully understand....

dave

Originally Posted by rudaire

In english, we'll often use the word 'know' in the same place as 'understand

'

Yes, I believe that was the thing none of us looked at. Indeed in english it is definitely an imperative if you use it like this. On the other hand, in Romanian it doesn't function the same way.

Originally Posted by rudaire

..... and the book I'm looking at does indeed have a form for understand that is imperative....

Does it make more sense to say,
"intelege ca te iubesc"

Exactly! THIS is the right imperative both in form and in use.

And this is also the equivalent of the imperative "know!" from english. For example, if in a movie someone says the phrase you used as an example (Know that I love you!) in the imperative, the Romanian subtitles would be: "Intelege ca te iubesc!"

I'm sure things are more than clear now

I was chatting with someone, and I asked them if they were going to go to sleep, and they replied something like "daca nu se gaseasca ceva de facut", which I think means, "if I don't find something to do".. But I'd want that to read daca nu ma gasesc ceva sa fac... I think I understand that 'de facut' means 'to do' in an unconjugated form, like not specific to who is doing it.. Like saying, 'ceva de spus', or ceva de uitat (something to say, something to look (at).. But I don't understand the third person usage of 'a gasi'.. I think I've heard of something called the passive voice, and this may be another example of this. But can someone try to explain why this person didn't reply in the first person and instead chose third person??

thanks

Also, I see many times people are asking for the different forms of verbs when they already know the infinitive. Here is a website that will list all the forms for you if you know the infinitive and the correct spelling... Hope people find it helpful
http://www.dictionare.com/dictionaries/dictionary.htm
dave

I think their answer was: dacă nu se găsește ceva de făcut.

which is not passive voice but reflexive "voice" in Romanian.
(check this for reference, in case you're not familiar with the reflexive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_voice)

The english translation of the phrase you mentioned can only be made with a passive(due to the absence of relexive in English): if nothing is found to do / if something isn't found to do
(None of these translations sound natural in English, but they help you understand the idea itself)

Now, your question as to why the person didn't use the first person:
Dacă nu găsesc ceva de făcut.

If you use the first person (active voice) it literally means "If I don't find something to do".

If you use the reflexive of the verb, that "something" is not to be found by you, it will appear regardless of your personal will.

I have to think of some exmaples of the reflexive so I can better illustrate its use and meaning.

Meanwhile, tell me if you understood what I've explained so far and if something is not clear, ask the questions! It's easier for me to explain when I know where to start from