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  1. #81
    rose4576
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    Now I am listening to:



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    Slicha, Bateli yekara, but for once I have to disagree with you! I have watched almost all the clips with Moran Mazor's performances on Eyal Golan's show and in my ears she does not sound at all like a Russian classical pianist. Actually I think she is "gruzinit", which is not exactly Russian, at least not judging from the Georgian Greeks I know! She may have a classical training, but I think as a singer she has the vocal skills to perform Mizrahi music, even in the "dikaon" style, as she did when she sang a tune originally recorded by Nivin. OK, her style may not be "asli" Mizrahi, but many of the classic Mizrahi artists do not sing in an "asli" Mizrahi style either...for example, Shimi Tavori and Nissim Seroussi, who sound more like Italian "San Remo festival" style crooners than traditional Yemenite or North African singers. Anyway, I guess that it's really a matter of taste, and we can't all have the same taste!

    Here are two performances that I liked:






    Best, Eva
    Last edited by evaba; 07-09-2011 at 02:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rose4576 View Post
    Sarit's cover song is nice. but I like the original song of nurit galron.
    bateli, I didn't see the t.v. talent show of Eyal Golan were he was searching for a female singer.
    I saw only the final, and in my humble opinion, I think that Moran Mazor was beterr then the 2 finalists.

    Here she sings in the final. nice song.
    she is very ugly
    היא מכוערת מאוד

  4. #84
    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rose4576 View Post
    Sarit's cover song is nice. but I like the original song of nurit galron.
    bateli, I didn't see the t.v. talent show of Eyal Golan were he was searching for a female singer.
    I saw only the final, and in my humble opinion, I think that Moran Mazor was beterr then the 2 finalists.

    Here she sings in the final. nice song.
    If you saw just the finale...then you didn't see OSHRIT ))
    How can you even be aware of her great talent ?
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

  5. #85
    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMOS View Post
    she is very ugly
    היא מכוערת מאוד
    again...as a feminist ..I say nothing...
    Zohar Argov wasn't handsome even before drugs...When I was a child I saw him perform on Independece Day...
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

  6. #86
    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Slicha, Bateli yekara, but for once I have to disagree with you! I have watched almost all the clips with Moran Mazor's performances on Eyal Golan's show and in my ears she does not sound at all like a Russian classical pianist. Actually I think she is "gruzinit", which is not exactly Russian, at least not judging from the Georgian Greeks I know! She may have a classical training, but I think as a singer she has the vocal skills to perform Mizrahi music, even in the "dikaon" style, as she did when she sang a tune originally recorded by Nivin. OK, her style may not be "asli" Mizrahi, but many of the classic Mizrahi artists do not sing in an "asli" Mizrahi style either...for example, Shimi Tavori and Nissim Seroussi, who sound more like Italian "San Remo festival" style crooners than traditional Yemenite or North African singers. Anyway, I guess that it's really a matter of taste, and we can't all have the same taste!

    Here are two performances that I liked:






    Best, Eva
    I'll answer that later Eva. I do have a lot to say about the considerations behind the election of Moran.
    Don't forget ..it was Eyal's choice...NOT THE PUBLIC
    Let me finish a few things first and I'll get back to you on that.

    OK ...I'm back
    Let's start by taking Shimi Tavori and Nissim Sarousi out of this discussion ...they were NEVER considered Mizrachi singers.
    The person who defined Sarousi Mizrachi is a patronizing interviewer (Yaron London) and by doing so he scared him out of Israel to France.
    Mizrachi music is not a biological issue but one that's related to sound and delivery.
    [I knew she was Gruzinit I was "playing" the arguement of her musical training. ]
    It's like you'd say that Gali Atari or Yizhar Cohen are Mizrachi singers simply because they're Yemenite.
    I know about San Remo..(and actually Yiannis sang there a few months ago and won a prize with Albano Carisi )
    Back to the branded librarian (Tshirts and all....and speaking of that...the styling of the outfits on the finale was BAD)
    I know my reply is all over the place...bear with me...I have 5 chats open...

    back to Moran and Eyal...since it's about him just as it is about her.
    Let's not be too naive as to the (commercial and personal) considerations that led Moran's "win".
    Eyal is no fool. Oshrit is an experienced singer who had a VOICE ...she wasn't and isn't easy to mold to the pattern Mizrachi music is heading today. Eyal's helpers said more than once that she is TOO mizrachit.
    I don't claim that Moran isn't talented but her voice is too "clean" to my taste and I DON'T "BUY" IT.
    I felt ...not thought but FELT ...that accuracy came at the expnese of delivery.
    She was painfully accurate and not enough emotion was injected to her delivery
    as if she acted the song rather than being it.
    I don't think anyone can be a Mizrachi singer despite musical talent.
    I'm very surprised that you as fan of Itzik Kala and Ofer Levi was attracted to her delivery.
    You are more connected to the hardcore Mizrachi music and performers than me .
    I had to take the long route to get there. Dalaras and Ploutarxos brought me back to my musical roots.
    I was around this music all my life and wasn't drawn to it.
    It took Dalaras's Mi milas mi gelas song to make me embrace the sounds of my childhood .
    I guess it's an age and maturiry thing, in my case maybe even motherhood.

    In general I don't think we have to agree on everything.
    I find these discussions to be stimulating and enriching.
    I welcome every chance to learn and grow.
    In this case though.....as I've already concluded ..... Each to his own.
    Last edited by bateli777; 07-09-2011 at 05:40 PM.
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

  7. #87
    Senior Member feuersteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rose4576 View Post
    I am listening to Idan Amedi - great songs that I love...
    Yes Bateli introduced us to Idan. But you guys need to transliterate the titles of the songs for us who can't read Hebrew You can't type Hebrew here into Realplayer
    Gott zur Ehr, dem nächsten zur Wehr

    What if they gave a fire and nobody came.

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    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feuersteve View Post
    Yes Bateli introduced us to Idan. But you guys need to transliterate the titles of the songs for us who can't read Hebrew You can't type Hebrew here into Realplayer
    which song you want to be transliterated ?
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

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    Quote Originally Posted by feuersteve View Post
    Yes Bateli introduced us to Idan. But you guys need to transliterate the titles of the songs for us who can't read Hebrew You can't type Hebrew here into Realplayer
    How do you do these two icons? the smiles Blue and purple

  10. #90
    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMOS View Post
    How do you do these two icons? the smiles Blue and purple
    That's the link to the emoticons...once you remember the text needed to by typed to get them you no longer need this link

    https://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/mi...do=showsmilies
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

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    THANK A LOT FOR YOU
    YOU HELP ME VERY MUCH
    תודה הרבה למענך
    אתה עוזר לי מאוד


  12. #92
    rose4576
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    The one only Glikeria - sings here a cover version of Idan's raichel song "milim yafot me'le" [An Hebrew - Greek version]


    Eyal golan and Moshe peretz


    Eyal golan - barcelona

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rose4576 For This Useful Post:
    bateli777 (07-10-2011),Pattmoreira (07-12-2011)

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    Hi again Bateli,

    Concerning Moran Mazor and Eyal's competition, I have just seen the clips with Moran and I didn't know about the whole selection procedure of the show-I thought that the finals included public voting like in "Kochav Nolad". I have to go back to youtube and look for clips with Oshrit-I got kind of stuck with Moran and watched all her clips...and the few clips with other singers that I did watch, I didn't like that much. I'll have to come back to you concerning Oshrit-I just might agree with you that she should have won. I still like Moran's voice though and I think with time and experience it will became less "trained" and more spontaneous.

    Here is Bateli's portion...I didn't get the quotes right:

    OK ...I'm back
    Let's start by taking Shimi Tavori and Nissim Sarousi out of this discussion ...they were NEVER considered Mizrachi singers.
    The person who defined Sarousi Mizrachi is a patronizing interviewer (Yaron London) and by doing so he scared him out of Israel to France.
    Mizrachi music is not a biological issue but one that's related to sound and delivery.

    Back to Eva!

    I'll try to give you my view on the issue, which you must remember is based on reading and not on personal experience. My impression is that both Shimi Tavori and Nissim Seroussi were considered "oriental" singers by many, even by their own fans at the time. This was not because of their musical style but because of their background, their main audiences and the whole "scene" to which they belonged. Shimi Tavori, Zohar Argov, Avner Gadassi, Avinu Medina et al were close friends, they all recorded for the Reuveni Brothers, they played the same clubs and they were all looked down upon by the Ashkenazi establishment. I even think that Seroussi, Tavori and Gadassi had a band together, before they became solo artists.

    So, even if Tavori or Seroussi sang in an Italian/French style, they were still more or less in the same musical "ghetto" as Zohar Argov and other more asli Oriental singers...and that's why Yaron London could tell Seroussi on national television that his music is "trash" (which make Gaon's latest pronouncements seem like a kind of "deja vu", don't they?!)

    I do believe that many Mizrahi composers and artists in the 70's and 80's felt that they had to "tone down" the oriental elements (the quarter tones, the instruments) and adopt a more Western sound in order to get some air play or reach a wider audience. For example, in retrospect many of the songs from the "Oriental Music Festival" sound pretty lame and "fake-oriental", at least to my ears! That goes not only for Tavori (whose voice I think is actually more fit for Italian schlager), but for other succesful artists as well, like Haim Moshe...unless they got an underground hit that was SO big that it couldn't be ignored, as when Haim Moshe sang "Linda, Linda" (a Lebanese song) in Arabic on national television:



    I love the way the presenters are jumping around-it's as if they are so embarassed that they have to behave like clowns, while Moshe is very serious and concentrates on his singing (and I think that the male presenter might himself be Yemenite)!

    Of course, with the "Turkish wave" in the 90's and the general acceptance of Mizrahi music and culture things have changed. There is a place for more oriental sounds and Ofer Levi appears at Caesaria-and gets rave reviews!:

    http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4091150,00.html

    As for terminology..... my feeling is that the term "Mizrahi music" in Israel has more to do with the background of the singers and their main audiences than with the music itself-which is not oriental in the sense that traditional Yemenite or Moroccan Jewish music is oriental or in the sense that Farid al-Atrash is oriental. To my ears, it is basically a mix of all sorts of musical influences, which has become a unique Israeli sound.

    I do like artists who sing in an asli Mizrahi style, like Ofer Levi and Itzik Kalah...but I very much enjoy listening to softer singers like Haim Moshe or Shlomi Shabat as well. Most of today's "pretty boy" singers like Moshe Peretz or Idan Yaniv are not that different from Tavori or Seroussi...and yet they are considered Mizrahi artists, aren't they? I think there's place for both styles-the problem is when the eastern elements become so diluted that the whole thing turns into pop or disco.

    Since you know Greek music, I'll give you a comparison. In general, there is a division between "elafra" (light) laika (popular songs) and "varia" (heavy) laika-in the "light" category you could put Jannis Parios, Jannis Poulopoulos or even Plutarchos...in the "heavy" category are artists like Angelopoulos in the past, or singers like Vassilis Karras or Zafiris Melas, whose music and singing is influenced by Turkish and Middle Eastern stylings. All these artists basically belong to the same genre-as opposed to Greek rock or hip hop. The differences are more in the vocal delivery and in the choice of songs/melodies. I believe that you have the same variety in Mizrahi music....so as far as I'm concerned, Moran Mazor could very well fit into the "softer" end of the spectrum.

    Best, Eva
    Last edited by evaba; 07-10-2011 at 09:33 AM.

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    I'm sorry..."Linda, Linda" is not a Lebanese song. It was written by an oud player from Damascus, Samir al-Tawir....though it was apparently very popular in Egypt as well:

    http://www.shira.net/music/lyrics/linda-linda.htm

    Eva

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    More Glykeria!

    Glykeria singing "Shabechi Yerushalayim":




    And "Ta Smirneika tragoudia" in Hebrew with Shlomi Shabat:



    And another lovely song from a recent (?) performance:



    Eva
    Last edited by evaba; 07-10-2011 at 08:39 AM.

  17. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Hi again Bateli,

    Concerning Moran Mazor and Eyal's competition, I have just seen the clips with Moran and I didn't know about the whole selection procedure of the show-I thought that the finals included public voting like in "Kochav Nolad". I have to go back to youtube and look for clips with Oshrit-I got kind of stuck with Moran and watched all her clips...and the few clips with other singers that I did watch, I didn't like that much. I'll have to come back to you concerning Oshrit-I just might agree with you that she should have won. I still like Moran's voice though and I think with time and experience it will became less "trained" and more spontaneous.

    Here is Bateli's portion...I didn't get the quotes right:

    OK ...I'm back
    Let's start by taking Shimi Tavori and Nissim Sarousi out of this discussion ...they were NEVER considered Mizrachi singers.
    The person who defined Sarousi Mizrachi is a patronizing interviewer (Yaron London) and by doing so he scared him out of Israel to France.
    Mizrachi music is not a biological issue but one that's related to sound and delivery.

    Back to Eva!

    I'll try to give you my view on the issue, which you must remember is based on reading and not on personal experience. My impression is that both Shimi Tavori and Nissim Seroussi were considered "oriental" singers by many, even by their own fans at the time. This was not because of their musical style, but because of their background, their main audiences and the whole "scene" to which they belonged. Shimi Tavori, Zohar Argov, Avner Gadassi, Avinu Medina et al were close friends, they all recorded for the Reuveni Brothers, they played the same clubs and they were all looked down upon by the Ashkenazi establishment. I even think that Seroussi, Tavori and Gadassi had a band together, before they became solo artists.

    So, even if Tavori or Seroussi sang in an Italian/French style, they were still more or less in the same musical "ghetto" as Zohar Argov and other more asli Oriental singers...and that's why Yaron London could tell Seroussi on national television that his music is "trash" (which make Gaon's latest pronouncements seem like a kind of "deja vu", don't they?!)

    I do believe that many Mizrahi composers and artists in the 70's and 80's felt that they had to "tone down" the oriental elements (the quarter tones, the oriental instruments) and adopt a more Western sound in order to get some air play or reach a wider audience. For example, in retrospect most of the songs from the "Oriental Music Festival" sound pretty lame and "fake-oriental", at least to my ears! That goes not only for Tavori (whose voice I think is actually more fit for Italian schlager), but for other succesful artists as well, like Haim Moshe...unless they got an underground hit that was SO big that it couldn't be ignored, as when Haim Moshe sang "Linda, Linda" (a Lebanese song) in Arabic on national television:



    I love the way the presenters are jumping around-it's as if they are so embarassed that they have to behave like clowns, while Moshe is very serious and concentrates on his singing (and I think that the male presenter might himself be Yemenite)!

    Of course, with the "Turkish wave" in the 90's and the general acceptance of Mizrahi music and culture things have changed. There is a place for more oriental sounds and Ofer Levi appears at Caesaria-and gets rave reviews!:

    http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4091150,00.html

    As for terminology..... my feeling is that the term "Mizrahi music" in Israel has more to do with the background of the singers and their main audiences, than with the music itself-which is not oriental in the sense that traditional Yemenite or Moroccan Jewish music is oriental or in the sense that Farid al-Atrash is oriental. To my ears, it is basically a mix of all sorts of musical influences, which has become a unique Israeli sound.

    I do like artists who sing in an asli Mizrahi style, like Ofer Levi and Itzik Kalah...but I very much enjoy listening to softer singers like Haim Moshe or Shlomi Shabat as well. Most of today's "pretty boy" singers like Moshe Peretz or Idan Yaniv are not that different from Tavori or Seroussi...and yet they are considered Mizrahi artists, aren't they? I think there's place for both styles-the problem is when the eastern elements become so diluted that the whole thing turns into pop or disco.

    Since you know Greek music, I'll give you a comparison. In general, there is a division between "elafra" (light) laika (popular songs) and "varia" (heavy) laika-in the "light" category you could put Jannis Parios, Jannis Poulopoulos or even Plutarchos...on the "heavy" category are artists like Angelopoulos in the past, or singers like Vassilis Karras or Zafiris Melas, whose music and singing is influenced by Turkish and Middle Eastern stylings. All these artists basically belong to the same genre-as opposed to Greek rock or hip hop. The differences are more in the vocal delivery and in the choice of songs/melodies. I believe that you have the same variety in Mizrahi music....so as far as I'm concerned, Moran Mazor could very well fit into the "softer" end of the spectrum.

    Best, Eva
    Hi Eva
    Honestly you should be given a job as a commentator in Isaraeli TV.
    We already established that your knowledge is a lot vaster than mine.
    Having said that I hope you enjoy Oshrit singing.
    The clip you showed...with Haim Moshe...I'm sorry I couldn't watch over 00:44
    I never thought I'd feel this again but ....
    These presenters...Dudu Dotan (RIP) and Zippi Shavit are C O M E D I A N S
    This is the way this music was treated.

    I agree that they all had to tone down the oriental elements in their music.
    This cost them with their fans basis.
    People who were into Zohar Argov did not care too much for Tavori's music despite their content of his success ( being one of them).
    Please don't kid yourself that Ofer Levi is more respected now by the mainstream. Ofer Levi never needed the media to be successful. He could have filled up Nokia Hall decades ago. For some odd reason Mizrachi singers felt they should not invade the holy temple of Ashkenazim (When referring to his success in filling up Caesaria Eyal Golan ironically phrased it "I'm playing host in Shlomo Artsi's living room")

    I can prepare you a long list of singers whose origin is Mizrachi and their art has nothing to do with that.
    Excuse my lack of capitalization .....let's start.
    1. gali Atari 2.yizhar cohen 3. vardina cohen 4. dana international 5. shiri maimon
    6. harel ska'at 7. harel moyal 8. miri messika 9.subliminal 10. ninet
    11. ofra haza 13. avi toledano 14. ilana avital 15. kobi oz 16. idan amedi
    17.yigal bashan 18.ahinoam nini 19. hayisraelim 20. RITA

    the list is so long...............most of these names were taken from a list of POP SINGERS…Subliminal is a rap artist.

    Traditional Mizrachi music is a combination of a few components

    Mizrachi origin- I believe this is a MUST ...you don't have to agree with me.
    Mizrachi text (Content :love;God;mom;loneliness; children/betrayal NO political or social issues / Writing= direct and emotional; biblical phrases;rich imagery)
    Mizrachi audience - loyal followers who buy music and go to shows (no one instructed Adam's fans to stop coming to see him)
    Mizrachi state of mind - this is an ilusive definition ....just like I can't explain to you why watching Zippi Shavit PISSES ME OFF !!!!!
    It has to do with awareness of who we are, to the respect we have for our customs (hina..mimuna...etc) to our commitment to our community and heritage despite intentional attempts to melt us all up in the infamous pot.

    I actually sat with Avner Gaddasi in the '70 in a club called Ha'chalom (The dream) in Netanya. You can't be more Yemenite than him. This is not reflected in his music (except for some tracks of traditional Yemenite "songs") . In that club you'd pay extra and be given a bunch of Gaht leaves. You would then sit on sofas and start doing Tachzina (chewing Ghat and smoking...small water pipes were not available back then)
    Avner Gaddasi did not get to be on TV because Mr. Goldfinger said he was too ugly to be presented to Israeli audience.

    Back to Moran…this is exactly what Eyal's helpers said on the show and why they voted out Oshrit. They are embracing the NEW MIZRACHI music.
    They are looking for someone who can do the transitions between all audiences.
    Their model is someone like Sarit Hadad who started as Mizrachi and explored other genres.
    You said something about Haim Moshe. He did start with Linda Linda which was hardcore Mizrachi but it's been ages since he done something similar to that.

    Of course there is room for anyone.
    It's a free market and everyone can sing whatever they want.
    What angered me and other Oshrit's fans is the misleading premise of the show which was Looking For a Female Mizrachi Singer.
    We have yet to adjust to the New Mizrachi sound and to the commercialization of what was once our culture.
    I'm sorry but for me what's going on now is not exactly Mizrachi.

    Your comparison to Greek music...I understand that completely.
    Ploutarxos may record only laika but in his shows he also sings heavy songs of Gonidis and such artists.
    His interpretation of ALIMONO could never be considered Laika

    I hope this thread is not automatically closed because of our discussions.
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

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    Hi again Bateli,

    I'm really enjoying our discussions, but maybe they are getting too "sociological", so we should probably continue our conversation in private! It is so interesting for me to talk to someone who has actually lived and experienced the issues we're discussing....my insights come mainly from reading stuff that is available in English, like Amy Horowitz recent book on Mizrahi music:

    http://wsupress.wayne.edu/books/1149...-the-Aesthetic

    This book is based on her dissertation, which I also have (when I get interested in something, I get REALLY interested!). It is very thorough-she has interviewed EVERYONE in the business and she has even made maps of all the markets and bus stations in Tel Aviv etc. where the Reuveni and Azoulay brothers distributed their music cassettes!

    There is also interesting info in Regev-Seroussi's book on Israeli music:

    http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520236547

    A few more points....

    I know that many hard-core fans felt that Haim Moshe "askenazified" himself when he started recording "shirei eretz Israel" and Naomi Shemer songs. I do like his more Western songs, for example "Todah", which is based on a Greek song, but which is more in the "elafra" style.... but then I am not part of his core audience either!

    About Ofer Levi-I do not kid myself that a rave review on Y-Net means that he has become in any way accepted ...you only need to read the "talkbacks" to that article to see how he is viewed by many Israelis! However, as you wrote yourself, Ofer Levi could probably care less what the "culture brokers" think about him and his music-he has a fanatic audience that could fill Caesaria many times over. I certainly don't agree with many of Ofer's very conservative views (being a liberal and an atheist!), but I like him for his guts and determination. He loves Turkish and Arab music, so that is what he (mainly) sings, regardless of trends and attitudes. When I look at some of his old CDs (where he sports a bare chest and HUGE gold chains!) I even think that he's making fun of the common stereotypes (about the "arsim" etc.)...it's as if he's saying, "if that's what you think of me, I'll live up to the stereotype!". So acceptance is maybe not a fitting word-what I meant was that Ofer Levi and others now get access to prestigious venues and various media in a way that was not possible in, say, 1985 or 1990.

    The antics of Dudu Dotan and Zippi Shavit make me feel uneasy as well-especially since Haim Moshe is being quite serious and focussed in his performance. It's like watching that awful movie "Sallah Shabati"-and yet people have told me that this movie was actually popular among Mizrahim, maybe because it was the first time they saw themselves portrayed in Israeli cinema. I don't know-you will have to tell me if it's true!

    Finally, I do know that there are many famous pop and rock singers of Yemenite etc. origin and I would not consider them Mizrahi singers. As you say, there needs to be something else. Now, I am going to say something that might disappoint you-as far as I'm concerned, Hatzijannis is not an "asli" laika singer-he is a pop singer with bouzouki, so to speak, and that goes for many of the new Greek laika stars (in my humble opinion, of course). These are mostly middle-class kids whose background and musical influences are very different from those of the old-time artists. Their songs may be in the typical "zeibekikos" or "hassapikos" or whatever mode, but they never experienced the hardships of the great singers of the 40's, 50's and 60's (and even the 70's!), who came from a very different place. When they sang "paliose to sakaki mou" ("my jacket is worn-out") or "megalosa se xena cheria" ("I grew up in the hands of foreigners", meaning that they had lost their parents in the war), they had lived what they sang about. Today's stars go on about their "bleeding hearts" and whatnot, but the truth is that they've had a very comfortable life. Of course, you can sing convincingly about being heart-broken and still be happily married (like Plutarchos!)...what I mean is that if I would apply the same criteria on Greek music that you apply on Mizrahi music, I would say that much modern Greek laika lacks the authenticity you're talking about. "The people" that Hatzijannis et al sing for is also very different from "the people" who would buy Kazantzidis' latest single and play it in their back yard parties.

    That doesn't mean that I don't like Hatzijannis, I've seen him 'live' and he gives everything-it's just that to me he's basically a pop artist. If you compare Zohar Argov with most of today's young Mizrahi stars, I think you'll understand what I mean.

    OK, I think we should continue in private-I have a feeling that some members think we have hijacked this thread and made it into an endless discussion about Israeli social attitudes!

    Best, Eva
    Last edited by evaba; 07-10-2011 at 01:31 PM.

  19. #98
    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    I'll start from the Sayfa (sof=end) of your reply.

    Mixalis ...or as I call him ..........axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxmixalisssssssssssss

    I think that passion for music and admiring an artist is something very personal almost non debatable.
    I couldn't care less how comfortable Mixalis's life had been or how much money Ploutarxos makes.
    May God protect them and give them a million times more.As far as I'm concerned they've both earned my respect love and admiration due to their ability to make me ......(I'm looking for an appropriate adjective...it may take some years)
    It is a love story and as in every love story it takes TWO to tango.
    Something about their voices and delivery speaks to me in a very deep level.
    I don't question it. I just embrace it. If you want to call mixalis a PUNK artist ...that's fine by me.

    Back to serious matters.
    I don't resent any artist's career choice to go mainstream.
    There are enough artists and enough genres to go around and anyone can find something he likes.
    It's an open market and everybody is welcome to grab as much as they can.
    I already told you that in my opinion this sudden freedom the Mizrachi artists are experiencing will back fire on them and this process has already started. I think I gave you the example of Naor Ormia and Ben Tavori sound the same in one of the reality shows.

    To your books (I'm a compulsive reader...don't apologize for it....nerds rule the world )
    I respect research and I'm sure these books provide a good description of the topic at hand.
    BUT
    Have you read the author's names ?
    Their perspective will forever from the OUTSIDE.

    Now I have a challenge for you...is this a Mizrachi song ?
    (lyrics, music and back vocals ...my brother Avichai . Performer : Haim Moshe)

    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

  20. #99
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    OK, I think we should close this thread...I have the feeling that we're going a bit in circles heres! For example, Hatzijannis and Plutarchos are as "mainstream" as they can be in a Greek context-and you obviously have no problem with that! That is probably because you love their singing and their songs speak to you. I'm more into older styles, and therefore I find them a tad too much on the pop side.

    I enjoy both asli Mizrahi Haim Moshe and mainstream Haim Moshe, because I love his voice-and I don't know if your brother's song is Mizrahi, but it does have soul!

    As for Amy Horowitz, she does not really "speak" much herself-much of her book is based on interviews with people like Haim Moshe, Margalit Tzanaani or Avihu Medina, who has always fought for Mizrahi artists and their rights.

    Finally, I do believe that Seroussi is a Sephardi name!.

    Best, Eva

  21. #100
    Senior Member bateli777's Avatar
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    Eva...
    Yes...it's such a pity ...agreeing
    A fight would have been a lot more interesting

    Why close the thread?
    Please read again the thread's name.
    I think you may have meant stop debating.
    We can continue to exchange views via PM though.
    I think Sarusi's name is the least impotant factor in his story.
    What was done to him should be a lesson for generations to come.

    So...Eva...what are you listening to now ?
    Ploutarxos Gia Panta

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