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  1. #21
    to hoću
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    I don't understand all of the layers, touched in this thread. But..

    ..for me as someone who still has to learn some basics of South Slavic languages, every translation is very helpful. If there exist different translations (literally and smoothed ones e.g.) it is even better for learning the language. I think I'm not the only one with this view here. Most discussions I read in ATL were held by different members in their function as translators, not between requester and translator.

    You as translators usually place higher demands on the detailed solutions for the concrete parts of the lyrics. Maybe because you are on a higher level. The more the translator explains (maybe in footnotes or so) the better it is for the learner of course. But on the other hand, I think, many people just want to know the generally meaning of the song they love, and even the language learners usually don't want to bother the translator with many questions, because the given results already helped them a lot. So if something stayed ambiguous, in many cases no one will ask for clarification.

    Yosis (don't feel offended when I speak about you in 3rd person, Yosis), might be an exception. I guess, he tries to translate the lyrics into Hebrew, mabe even to publish them in his channel. So for him it might be desirable to get the "best" (kind of "authorised") translation results and he often tries to find native translators for it.

    We all know that there are other translation sites, too. Very good ones with translators, who often studied the language they translate from or to. But ATL is unique because you can provide different aspects here.

    For example:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzomba View Post
    so you don't agree that "NA" means "ON"?
    Prepositions are one of my main problems in learning languages (even in English). When I look in a small dictionary, I often don't get the meanings that are used in phrases. dict.cc for example (still a very incomplete version) lists only German "an, am, auf, beim" for Serbian "na". I still bought no Serbian dictionary. But when I take a look in my better Bulgarian <> German dictionary, there are listed spatial, directional and temporal meanings for "на" as German "in". The same in my Bulgarian <> English dictionary for English "in". There you'll find idioms like:

    [within/place]:
    - "in somebody's face/the picture"="на лицето на някого/картината"
    - "in the snow/sun"="на снега/слънце"
    - "in your place"="на твое място"
    - "in the east"="на изток"
    - "to sleep in the open" = "спя на открито"
    [in situation, state of]:
    - "in fashion"="на мода"
    - "in fun"="на шега"
    [direction]:
    - "to speak something in sombody's ear" = "казвам някому нещо на ухото"
    - "to place confidence in somebody" = "възлагам надежда на някого"
    [concerning]:
    - "a rise in prices"="увеличение на цените"
    [taking the form of]:
    - "to speak in French"="говоря на френски" (in German: "auf" and "in" possible!)
    [amount]:
    - "in peaces"="на части"
    - "one in a hundred chance"="шанс едно на сто" (in German: "in", "auf", "von" possible!)

    Of course some of these examples might not fit because the English phrase is built "in a different way" (Serbian: ?"на другачији начин"; Bulgarian: ?"по различен начин"; German: "auf andere Weise"/"auf anderem Weg"/"in anderer Weise") than the Bulgarian one, and the translation of the phrase actually gives not a concrete translation of the preposition used in the phrase. Even more Bulgarian phrases using "на" are translatad in German with "in" like those of place (стоя на тачение; живея на втория етаж; съм на лекция, концерт, проповед; къщата е 20 крачки на широчина), direction (ходим/отивам на училище; отиваме на концерт/театър/кино; превеждам на български) or time (на старини; на интервали).

    Is this similar in translations from BCS to English as it is with Bulgarian to English?

    No one of us trusts Google translator, but sometimes in its data base there are integrated whole phrases (especially when you translate from or to English). For "Kao kap na dlanu drzis me" google gives out "As a drop in the palm of me hold it" (?correct: "Like a drop in/on the palm you hold me") and even to German "Wie ein Tropfen in der Handfläche halten Sie es mir" (?correct: "Wie einen Tropfen in/auf der Handfläche hältst du mich"). For such a small object like a drop it is equal in German whether you say "in" ("in") or "auf" ("on"). When you associate someone juggling like Djomba meant, you would prefer "auf" ("on") I guess, when you associate your palm building a protecting flat cup, you will prefer to say "in" ("in").
    I don't want to start this one question again. What I wanted to say:
    Alone with internet and books, there is few chance to solve concrete language problems.
    You all here reacted to the real demands. Thanks for that!

    I don't agree with Abraham Lincoln, when he said: "In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time." You all were right. There is no.. (okay, this is not the place for this)

    So when you should close this, proceed your way all together, please.
    Last edited by to hoću; 02-09-2012 at 09:08 AM. Reason: God added

  2. #22
    Senior Member Dzomba's Avatar
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    Look, 'na' is translated like 'on' in this case, and in majority of other cases. 'On' is its main meaning both in Serbian and English (it's also the case with Bulgarian, although, in my opinion, Bulgarians use 'na' more often and in more situations, i.e. it has more uses, like the ones you wrote in your post)..

    Now, OF COURSE THAT BELVEDER ALSO KNOWS THAT 'NA' IS TRANSLATED LIKE 'ON'. HE JUST DOESN'T APPROVE TAKING SERBIAN IDIOMS INTO ENGLISH.

    That's the whole and only point of the discussion. And I also don't want to see any other comments on this... (don't even think of replying to this part of the post... )

    ......

    to hocu, I see that you are very interested in constructions and, in general, the very essence of this language.. Maybe even too much for a person that "still has to learn some basics of South Slavic languages". That's good, don't take me wrong.
    I just hope we are not making a mess in your head with all these discussions and different opinions, because, like I said, they all (I mean, all of them in this thread) come down to one, and only one thing - the thing I wrote in first part of this post.

    About Bulgarian.. I'm also interested in this language.. (mainly because it's the easiest language serbocroatian natives can learn )
    And, of course, because of the music and everything... I spent two summers in Bulgaria when I was younger, so there's also that...
    In general, an average BCS speaker can understand some Bulgarian, because they have many similar words and constructions. And, I can honestly say, that I can understand some whole songs now, and even translate some of them line by line... (I've been exposed to Bulgarian through a music TV channel in the last, like, 2-3 years ). But I'm still far from speaking the language..
    Btw, Toni Storaro on my avatar.. lololololololol

  3. #23
    Senior Member MayGoLoco's Avatar
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    The Morton Benson dictionary translates it this way:

    Voda
    *čuvati kao malo ~e na dlanu to guard like the apple of one's eye;


    But because he's singing "Da me đavo drži, da me vatra prži", I do think it's okay to translate "kao malo vode, znaj, čuvaću te ja" literally, without it's 'figurative' (true) meaning. It's adds an emphasis to the devil line before it.
    In any other case I would have translated it as apple of my eye.

  4. #24
    Belveder
    Guest

    Now, OF COURSE THAT BELVEDER ALSO KNOWS THAT 'NA' IS TRANSLATED LIKE 'ON'. HE JUST DOESN'T APPROVE TAKING SERBIAN IDIOMS INTO ENGLISH.
    Hahhaha... da ti dam lajk?
    Hoćeš tako dakle, takve prevode?

    IMAM TE POD PALCEM!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Dzomba's Avatar
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  6. #26
    Belveder
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    (Jel si ti neki prorok? Prorices sudbinu....)

    Btw, Toni Storaro on my avatar.. lololololololol
    You say Lol to a man?..... Upss.....
    Last edited by Belveder; 02-09-2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Samo ce ti se kasti

  7. #27
    Belveder
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Dzomba's Avatar
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    Joj, kako si vickast...

    Potezemo tesku artiljeriju...


  9. #29
    Belveder
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    I thought you like this hotty .... haha


  10. #30
    Senior Member Dzomba's Avatar
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    Pitanje za tebe je da li razumes onu pesmu gore..??

    ...

    I sometimes like listening to him... I'm not sure about you, though......
    I mean, if you think he's hot, that's your problem...

    I prefer this...


  11. #31
    Belveder
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    "I think it's time for a mod to close this thread..."

    Why? You ca learn grammar here.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Dzomba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belveder View Post
    "I think it's time for a mod to close this thread..."

    Why? You ca learn grammar here.
    Well, not anymore, obviously..

  13. #33
    to hoću
    Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Belveder View Post
    I thought you like this hotty .... haha
    Yes, very delicious. But if you compare with those who still live in Stolipinovo or in Dortmund, he made it very well. Am I wrong?

  14. #34
    Belveder
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    Ne razumeme pesmu, ali klasican bugarski Schund & Schmutz, kopija Paris Hilton.

  15. #35
    Belveder
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    Default Malo repa, za promenu

    Last edited by Belveder; 02-09-2012 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Volis rap? Kad dajes lajkove tamo...

  16. #36
    Senior Member Dzomba's Avatar
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    I give likes for rap translations because they usualy have the toughest and the longest lyrics...
    I like rap sometimes... Hell, I am from NBgd...

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