This is the REAL Greek music - the best greek music ever made

[Duffy Dack]

Here I will present the best greek songs and albums, rebetika and laika (not tsiftetelia or Indian sounds).

AXION ESTI 2.jpg
"Της αγάπης αίματα / tis agapis aimata / bloods of love"
Lyrics: Odysseas Elytis
Music: Mikis Theodorakis
First version: Grigoris Bithikotsis
Album: To Axion Esti (1964)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D-RGx2Ipn8

[David Halitsky]

I'm really glad you have started this thread.

But I have to wonder whether Amethystos will find the phrase "REAL Greek music" a little overly-nationalistic? Since he doesn't think there are "right sides" to actual conflicts like civil wars, how can he think that that Greek music should be divided into "real" and "not real"? (Well, I'm not including "Westernized" Greek music here, where the orchestration is designed to imitate US rock/pop/hiphop/rap orchestrations - I agree that this kind of music can't be considered "Greek" ...)

I'm joking here a little, but also not joking, if you know what I mean. When I hung-out in the New York Greek clubs in the 1970's (Port Said, Egyptian Gardens, etc.), there were plenty of Greeks from Greece visiting NYC who were happily listening to tsiftetelli's that the band played ....

[Duffy Dack]

Ι'm not against any kind of music and ofcource i'm not nationalist at all. Βut these oriental sounds are not Greek music, whether playing the Greeks. And here "real Greek music" means quality...!

[Duffy Dack]

Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια / ston agelon ta bouzoukia / to the bouzoukia of the Angels
praktika.jpg
Album: ΜΙΚΡΑ ΠΡΑΚΤΙΚΑ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΥ ΤΡΑΓΟΥΔΙΟΥ ΝΟ 4 / SMALL PRACTICAL OF GREEK SONG NO 4 (1993)
Music: Hristos Nikolopoulos
Lyrics: Manos Eleftheriou
Vocals: Mihalis Dimitriadis / Eleni Tsaligopoulou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXwG1KlY8mY

[David Halitsky]

But wait a second, Duffy!

Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια is a zeibekiko, and everyone now agrees the Greek zeibekiko came from the dance of the Turkish Zeibeks.

(Zeibekiko is a 9/8 rhythm like the Turkish and Greek karsilama, but it's accented differently than the karsilama.)

So wouldn't you have to say that Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια has "Oriental" influence, even though it's not tsiftetelli ?

PS - if you don't believe me that Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια is a zeibekiko, just a count the beats in the bouzoukee solo at the beginning - there are 12 short "sixteenth" beats

1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

followed by three longer "eighth" beats

1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3.

And 3/8 = 6/16, so 6/16 +12/16 = 18/16 = 9/8.

You can count the rest of the song after the solo the same way - just pay attention to your count and try not to be influenced by the way the musicians are choosing to accent the beats. They accent the beats pretty much like in any standard zeibekiko, but maybe a little more "flowing". It's basically

DUMda daDUM-DUM immediately followed by DUMda daDUM-DUM-DUM.

It's the extra DUM (the third DUM) at the end of the second part that makes a 9/8 zeibekiko instead of a standard 8/8 = 4/4 song. That's why some Greek folk dance teachers tell their Western students to think of a zeibekiko as a "4/4 with an extra beat".

[Duffy Dack]

But wait a second, Duffy!

Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια is a zeibekiko, and everyone now agrees the Greek zeibekiko came from the dance of the Turkish Zeibeks.

(Zeibekiko is a 9/8 rhythm like the Turkish and Greek karsilama, but it's accented differently than the karsilama.)

So wouldn't you have to say that Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια has "Oriental" influence, even though it's not tsiftetelli ?

All I'm trying to say is that other things are "influences" and other things straight music which came from Byzantium - with some influences ofcource - but with its own form. As I explain above "real" means quality. See what quality tsifteteli is and what not. My english is bad to explain to you better, but i grew up with greek music until the quality falls in eighties 'till now. Anyway, I saw you choose good stuff to listen to and no skyladika.

Quality (with influence)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr7R3C66Wgg

is that Greek music?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjI_L_iho2s

[David Halitsky]

I am glad to say we are in 100% agreement, Duffy.

Yes, your first cut is "quality with influence", absolutelty.

And the second cut is something the house band in a Greek club would play when some big-spending Turks happened to be in the audience. (This often happened in NYC - I don't know whether it could happen in Athens.)

Also - agree 100% about he quality falling off in the 1980's - partly because the kids didn't want to listen to their parents' music!!!!


One other thing - although the haspiko does date back to the actual Gteek Byzantine era (dance of the butcher's guild, etc), many people think that rebetiko actually grew out of music brought to Greece by Greek refugees from Turkey in the early 20th century - so that's another kind of "Greek plus influence".

[Duffy Dack]

Actually not hasapico or zeibekiko but the rhythm of 9/8 or so is coming from that era. Greek music continuously exist like the language and religion.
11503-01-pandouris.jpgελληνικη-πλάκα-5ου-&#.jpgpandoura_002.jpg11503-03-thampoura.jpg11503-02-fandouros.jpg

[Duffy Dack]

bouzouki3.jpgimages.jpgkoloko.jpg1380190212.jpgimagesεδ.jpg

[Duffy Dack]

κατάλογοςς.jpg
Kuro Siwo
Album: Γραμμές των οριζόντων / grames ton orizonton / Lines of the Horizons
Music & vocal: Thanos Mikroutsikos
lyrics: Nikos Kavadias

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DblfswREKOo

[Duffy Dack]

(1st version 1940)
Music lyrics & vocal: Dimitris (Gogos) Bagianteras


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMHkVa3K5eE

As if my mind is enchanted it sets forth on wings
my every thought flies around you
I can find no peace even in my sleep
you, always, my princess I remember

In the tavern on the corner I drink for you
for your love I pour out rivers of tears
Pity me, little one and don't leave me alone
since you know that I am pining away for you

Ach playful girl, stop now with your spite
and don't shatter my poor heart into pieces
with one glance my way - ach, how I melt
with you, you know I forget every pain

[Amethystos]

I'm really glad you have started this thread.

But I have to wonder whether Amethystos will find the phrase "REAL Greek music" a little overly-nationalistic?

Not at all.

Since he doesn't think there are "right sides" to actual conflicts like civil wars, how can he think that that Greek music should be divided into "real" and "not real"? (Well, I'm not including "Westernized" Greek music here, where the orchestration is designed to imitate US rock/pop/hiphop/rap orchestrations - I agree that this kind of music can't be considered "Greek" ...)

Is it a logical "jumping" over there?
How could sb claim that the sentence "no civil war is rightfully justified" leads to "there are no real nations"
Simply can't follow you.

I'm joking here a little, but also not joking, if you know what I mean.

Yes I think know.

When I hung-out in the New York Greek clubs in the 1970's (Port Said, Egyptian Gardens, etc.), there were plenty of Greeks from Greece visiting NYC who were happily listening to tsiftetelli's that the band played ....

More than true!
And to be honest there's some enjoyment when watching a lady dancing tsifteteli!

But wait a second, Duffy!

Στων Αγγέλων τα μπουζούκια is a zeibekiko, and everyone now agrees the Greek zeibekiko came from the dance of the Turkish Zeibeks.

I believe that "generalizing won't lead to conclusions."

__________________________________________________ ____

And since I don't like leaving questions unanswered:

Human mind is responsible.
Responsible for the existence of egoism.
Egoism, arm of "homo sapiens" fighting to survive in a cold universe.
Knowing that their fight is lost, created legacy.

Legacy: "where I came from" and "why do I have to deliver?"

But yes my friend, I play the same game with the others not only for communication's reasons.
I love being a member of this "overly influenced" Greece!

[Duffy Dack]

Τ' όνειρο καπνός / t' oniro kapnos / The dream became smoke

θαλασσινά φεγγάρ&#953.jpg
Album: thalasina fegaria (1966)
Music: Mikis Theodorakis
Lyrics: Nikos Gatsos
Vocal: Maria Farandouri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWydM_RKgoI


I sowed grass in your garden
so the birds would come in the evening
now what moon has taken you
and emptied the embrace of the world

On the balcony of the night
the sky freezes
and love is dust
and the dream smoke

The days of youth flowed into the river
and time became an incline
I was a reed in the wind
and you were an osier in the storm

[David Halitsky]

Duffy - thanks for the Bagianteras (and the translation.) I never heard this version before. and it's a great version because it's so simple and direct, just like Frankosyrianni the way it was originally played by Markos V. himself. In both cases, later versions are "softer" and maybe more "musical", so they're very enjoyable and great in their own way - just not so "straight from the heart".

[David Halitsky]

Amethystos -

You wrote:

"Is it a logical "jumping" over there?
How could sb claim that the sentence "no civil war is rightfully justified" leads to "there are no real nations"
Simply can't follow you."

And you're correct - I was not giving you credit for being as subtle as you were being. In the future, I promise to remember that you are a descendant of "philosopher-kings", and not just some undergraduate "Classics" major (heh heh heh!)

But sometimes it's hard to take the position that you're taking regarding civil wars.

For example, in one sense the US Civil war was not justified because some politicians in the mercantile/industrial North went to war solely to get power over politicians in the agriculatural south - in other words, getting rid of slavery was just an excuse (pretext) for them.

But in another sense, you have to think the US Civil War was worthwhile because it DID get rid of slavery, and the only other way to get rid of slavery at that time was to let it persist for many more generations until enough Southerners realized on their own that they had to act like Christians if they wanted to call themselves Christians.

[Tahira]

My opinion as a dancer concerning good and bad quality of music:

Teli Teli is defintely a song which should be played at greek parties, to sing along or to dance along.

The modern tsiftetelli song you posted is a good example for a song I would use as a bonus track or last track for a bellydance show when I know that there are turkish, russian or bulgarian people in the audiance. People would stand up and definetelly dance along as it is 4/4 rhythm, modern (party like song) and has some traditional elements (gaida).

Furthermore I have do add that I am dancing now about 20 years, and still I haven't learned everything. Everytime I have lessons with a new teacher I learn something different. Half a year ago I started to train greek folcloric dances and again this is something new. I love to dance as is is a neverending field fo learning about movements, music and culture - really neverending!

I also love to see the changes of music and dances over the time. The interaction of different influences makes it interesting and exciting, keeps the dance or music "alive".

By the way there exists also another explanation of the origin of Zeimbekiko:

http://www.peoplenews.gr/index.php?o...2-34&Itemid=58

[David Halitsky]

Duffy - here's our friend Tolis doing a number with heavy "Oriental" oud and clarinet accompaniment

Γαλανομάτα μάγισσα - 1996
http://www.stixoi.info/stixoi.php?in...&song_id=28945
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxMn1bOrc4

What do you think, Emperor Dack?

Thumbs-up or thumbs-down?

Real Greek or not Greek enough?

My own opinion is that Tolis has always had great taste, so we have to accept this as "real Greek".

But I'm very curious to know what you think.

Also, if you think it's a good example of "real Greek" tsiftetelli, then would you mind providing an English translation? There is none out there so far as I can tell.

Also - question for Tahira - which Arabic rhythm would you say this is closest to? Or would you say it's really not like any Arabic rhythm - just Turkish?

[Tahira]

Youtube blocked in Germany...:-(

Is this similar to the one you posted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLLldpqZfrM

Then it sounds to me like synthesizer music. I wouldn't take this for dancing as I would miss "the soul of music".
If your sample should have a real darbukka and some real played instruments (Bouzouki, accordeon etc) I think I would like it.

The rhythm is arabic called Maksoum DUM Tak Tak DUM Tak

[David Halitsky]

Yes - the two vids are actually of the same song - thanks for catching that.

In the one I just posted, the oud, clarinet and dumbeg (darbukka) are all real for sure.

Also, in the one I posted earlier, I think the instruments are also real (not synthesizer), but maybe I'm wrong.

[Duffy Dack]

Real Greek or not Greek enough?

My own opinion is that Tolis has always had great taste, so we have to accept this as "real Greek".

But I'm very curious to know what you think.

Ha ha ha, My opinion is that this is very eastern oriental with "some" greek influense in it!
Tolis once was good, but later changed direction like Anna Visy and others. Do you really know Anna's first steps? If not...listen:

Σ' αγαπώ / s' agapo / I love you
Album: Μικρές πολιτείες / Mikres polities / small towns (1974)
κατάλογοςσ.jpg
Lyrics: Akos Daskalopoulos
Music: Stavros Kouyioumtzis
First version: Anna Vissi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_m-qFxuCDs


Ah, dear dove, don't go, don't hurry,
but come and drink some water from my hand

Tonight I will not sleep
I will stay up again thinking
how I hurt, how I hurt, how I hurt...
Your smile, that lovely picture,
your step, different from all others,
I love you, I love you, I love you.

Tear open my heart with a knife
nobody knows what I go through every night

Every night, every morning,
there is a little less life for me
how I hurt, how I hurt, how I hurt...
Your smile, that lovely picture,
your step, different from all others,
I love you, I love you, I love you.

Tonight I will not sleep
I will stay up again thinking
how I hurt, how I hurt, how I hurt...
Your smile, that lovely picture,
your step, different from all others,
I love you, I love you, I love you.


Δίψασα στην πόρτα σου / dipsasa stin porta sou / I was at your door, thirsty
Album: μικρές πολιτείες (1974)
Lyrics: Manos Eleftheriou
Music: Stavros Kouyioumtzis
First version: Anna Vissi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOcxZoX0Vhk

I was at your door, thirsty for love
and petitioning gently to [be let in to] sleep
The moon a black ring
an offering in a far-way chapel
The moon a black ring
an offering in a far-way chapel

I tied down your voice with a knot
fresh leafy branch in the yard
secret tree of paradise
little balcony of the small life
secret tree of paradise
little balcony of the small life