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  1. #1
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Default Please translate this short conversation between Amethystos and Duffy Dack

    When Duffy Dack posts, his signature has this:

    "Αν υπάρχει κάτι που δεν χρειάζεται την πλειοψηφία για να είναι σωστό, αυτό είναι η ανθρώπινη συνείδηση."

    So Amethystos asks these questions about this "signature":

    Τι εννοείς με τη λέξη "σωστό"; Πιστεύεις στην ύπαρξη "σωστού" και "λάθους" στη ζωή;

    To which Duffy replies:

    Στη Δημοκρατία για να γίνει κάτι αποδεκτό, άρα σωστό, χρειάζεται η πλειοψηφία. Στη δικαιοσύνη όμως δεν είναι απαραίτητη η πλειοψηφία (των ενόρκων εν προκειμένω) για να είναι η απόφαση δίκαιη, πρέπει να κοιτάξεις και την συνείδησή σου. Αν διαβάσεις το "Όταν σκοτώνουν τα κοτσίφια" θα καταλάβεις...

    To which Amethystos replies

    Αντιλαμβάνομαι. ( no need to translate this, of course)

  2. #2
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    "If there's a thing that doesn't need the majority's approval for being right, this is human conscience"

    "What do you mean when you use "right"? Do you believe in "right and wrong" in real-life?"

    "In Democracy for a thing to be approved, thus to be right, majority's approval is being needed. While in justice for a verdict to be right majority isn't needed (speaking about the jury), someone has to examine his own conscience. If you read "To Kill a Mockingbird" you'll understand ..."

    "Understood"
    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to?
    You will never find that life for which you are looking.
    When the gods created man they allotted to him death,
    but life they retained in their own keeping"

  3. #3
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Thank you, Amethystos.

    So in the phrase:

    "ύπαρξη "σωστού" και "λάθους" στη ζωή" (existence OF "right" and "wrong" in real-life)

    I know that

    "σωστού"

    shows the genitive case ending -ού instead of the nominative case ending -os, like in "σωστοs". That's the first masculine declension, same as in Attic.

    But what about "λάθους"? Is it singular or plural? And what is its case? I'm guessing it technically means "mistaken things", so its case would be the accusative plural -ους for λάθος, just like in Attic.

    But if I'm wrong about this ... if "λάθους" is actually a genitive plural, not an accusative plural, then why isn't it λάθών, like the genitive plural in Attic? Did the genitive and accusative plurals "merge" in modern greek?

    Or do I have the wrong declension for "λάθους" altogether?
    Last edited by David Halitsky; 12-23-2014 at 04:03 PM.

  4. #4
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Halitsky View Post
    Thank you, Amethystos.

    So in the phrase:

    "ύπαρξη "σωστού" και "λάθους" στη ζωή" (existence OF "right" and "wrong" in real-life)

    I know that

    "σωστού"

    shows the genitive case ending -ού instead of the nominative case ending -os, like in "σωστοs". That's the first masculine declension, same as in Attic.

    But what about "λάθους"? Is it singular or plural? And what is its case? I'm guessing it technically means "mistaken things", so its case would be the accusative plural -ους, just like in Attic for λάθος.

    But if I'm wrong about this ... if "λάθους" is actually a genitive plural, not an accusative plural, then why isn't it λάθών, like the genitive plural in Attic? Did the genitive and accusative plurals "merge" in modern greek?
    Here σωστό and λάθος are being used as general ideas (nouns) not adjectives.
    Thus, "σωστού" and "λάθους" are both
    neuter, genitive, singular.
    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to?
    You will never find that life for which you are looking.
    When the gods created man they allotted to him death,
    but life they retained in their own keeping"

  5. #5
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Thanks. I didn't realize λάθος was nominative with λάθους as genitive. There's nothing in Attic that works that way.

    Neuter nominative singular is always -ον in Attic, and neuter nominative plural is always -α. And -ον takes -ου genitive, just like masculine -ος does.

    Don't worry, though. I'll eventually get around to buying a grammar so I don't have to ask you these stupid questions. I just hate the idea of having to learn a language twice, just because 2500 years have gone by. Once should be enough for any language.
    Last edited by David Halitsky; 12-23-2014 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #6
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    I think that the: "Learning the Greek language" thread will be ok for you. (The last posts are mine)
    Αν υπάρχει κάτι που δεν χρειάζεται την πλειοψηφία για να είναι σωστό, αυτό είναι η ανθρώπινη συνείδηση.

  7. #7
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Actually, Duffy, I think I will start a companion thread called "Learning Attic (Classical) if you know Modern".

    So I will take a modern Greek grammar and for each chapter show what the facts were for Classical. People would learn ALOT about why things are a certain way in Modern, even though they don't seem to make any sense.

    But mainly, I would learn a lot of Modern that way because I would be relating it to what I know about Classical.

    Like, how many speakers of Modern know that Greek once had the "dative" case as well as the "accusative" case, and the "optative" mood as well as the "subjunctive" mood, and the "dual" number as well as the singular and plural?

    "to the house" Classical used accusative
    "in the house" Classical used dative

    "If I decide to go" Classical used subjunctive mood for future hypothetical
    "If I had decided to go" Classical used optative mood for past hypothetical

    dual nouns: for any noun that means a natural set of two (like twins); some modern Greek nouns are the way they are because they were "dual" nouns in Classical.

    The only place English retains a trace of the subjunctive is for the verb "to be":

    If I WERE rich

    not

    If I WAS rich

    (although most people don't bother saying "WERE" anymore")

    Also, there are a a very few true dual English nouns, like

    scissors or pair of scissors
    pants or pair of pants

    There is no such thing in English as one "scissor" or one "pant".

  8. #8
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Halitsky View Post
    I just hate the idea of having to learn a language twice, just because 2500 years have gone by.
    And all that JUST because 2500 years have gone by ..... How dare they!
    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to?
    You will never find that life for which you are looking.
    When the gods created man they allotted to him death,
    but life they retained in their own keeping"

  9. #9
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    I was pretty sure you would appreciate that "joke", Amethystos.

    Glad you did.

    And your response was just as funny, too!

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