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  1. #1
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Default Learning the Armenian 6/8 rhythm from TWO Armenian masters of the oud

    Hello ARMENIAtheBEAUTIFUL -

    We met over on the Greek forum, and I mentioned I would be doing this post over here. So here I am.

    Where do I start?

    Well, maybe I should say that I am very privileged to have had the opportunity to learn the subtleties of the Armenian 6/8 rhythm from two different Armenian masters of the oud (both now unfortunately no longer with us).

    Haig Manoukian
    https://www.facebook.com/haigmanoukian
    http://www.alsarah.com/soulsudani/ho...haig-manoukian
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MueTErD4mbg

    Charles ("Chick") Ganimian
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ganimian
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Xh7BZjF40

    In the mid-1970's, Haig was teaching dumbek to Anahid Sofian's dance students in her Manhattan studio (http://www.anahidsofianstudio.com/) once a week, and at the same time Chick was staying with Anahid temporarily while he sought to recover his health.

    And right around that time, I had fallen in love with the Armenian 6/8 rhythm, not just because of its musical qualities, but also because I was privileged many times to see Anahid dance solo to 6/8's played by the house band in a NYC Middle Eastern club that was around at the time, and also to see her dance to 6/8's in the club with Faisal Cengiz (he was a very talented dancer who was a member of Guzey Onor's Turkish dance troupe).

    Faisal Cengiz
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/ar...h&emc=th&_r=0#

    So, I asked Haig to teach me the Armenian 6/8 rhythm so I could do a good job of playing 6/8 songs on the guitar, and he agreed to give me a few lessons, one a week, before his weekly drum class in Anahid's studio.

    He would patiently teach me the subtleties of the rhythm (like how it differed from the heavier Persian 6/8), and after the lesson, I would try to recreate what he had shown me on my own. And as you can imagine, Chick was horrified at my initial attempts, so he would patiently try to show me where I was going wrong.

    It has been many years since the mid 1970's, and I'm afraid I've forgotten all the 6/8's that Haig and Chick played, except for what is probably the most famous 6/8 of them all:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybrXjSQFoKM

    So I'm wondering if you would have a moment to provide some examples of Armenian 6/8's that you consider truly great (with youtube links if possible.)

    I would be very grateful if you could do so, even though I know that unfortunately, listening to them won't make me young again.
    Last edited by David Halitsky; 12-25-2014 at 10:56 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member feuersteve's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about music rhythms, but I'll post some songs for you. I hope you guys enjoy them.



    Oh look, I found Լուսիկ Քոշյան

    @ Armenia_the_Beautiful: I posted these for you.





    Հազար նազով,յար,հովերի հետ եկ,

    Ծաղիկ փնջ`ելով սարվորի հետ եկ,
    Սև ձիուս վրա տեսել,մոլոր մնացել:
    Սարի սիրուն յար,սարի մեխակ բեր,
    Ախ, չէ,ի՞նչ մեխակ, սիրո կրակ բեր:
    Հազար մի ծաղկի մեջ ես մեծացել,
    Ծաղկանց ցողերով մազերով թացել,
    Մազերիդ բույրը հեռվից է գալիս,
    Զեփույռը բերում սրտիս է տալիս:
    Սարի սիրուն յար,սարի մեխակ բեր,
    Ախ, չէ,ի՞նչ մեխակ, սիրո կրակ բեր
    Երբ քո հայացքը երկնին ես հառում,
    Վառ աստղերը ասես նոր լույս են առնում,
    Քո ձայնն են առնում հավք ու հովերը,
    Ախ ե՞րբ կառնեմ ես քո մատաղ սերը
    Սարի սիրուն յար,սարի մեխակ բեր,
    Ախ, չէ,ի՞նչ մեխակ, սիրո կրակ բեր
    Սարից է գալիս էս առվի ջուրը,
    Բերում է ,յար, քո բույրն ու համբույրը,
    Աշոտ , թե կարաս քո երգյի վահանգով
    Յարիդ կախարդիր , թող տուն գա հանդով
    Սարի սիրուն յար,սարի մեխակ բեր,
    Ախ, չէ,ի՞նչ մեխակ, սիրո կրակ բեր:

    Hazar nazov,yar,hoveri het yek,
    Tsaghik p’nj`yelov sarvori het yek,
    Sev dzius vra tesel,molor mnats’yel:
    Sari sirun yar,sari mekhak ber,
    Akh, ch’e,i՞nch’ mekhak, siro krak ber:
    Hazar mi tsaghki mej yes metsats’yel,
    Tsaghkants’ ts’vogherov mazerov t’ats’yel,
    Mazerid buyry herrvits’ e galis,
    Zep’uyrry berum srtis e talis:
    Sari sirun yar,sari mekhak ber,
    Akh, ch’e,i՞nch’ mekhak, siro krak ber
    Yerb k’vo hayats’k’y yerknin yes harrum,
    Varr astghery ases nor luys yen arrnum,
    K’vo dzaynn yen arrnum havk’ u hovery,
    Akh ye՞rb karrnem yes k’vo matagh sery
    Sari sirun yar,sari mekhak ber,
    Akh, ch’e,i՞nch’ mekhak, siro krak ber
    Sarits’ e galis es arrvi jury,
    Berum e ,yar, k’vo buyrn u hambuyry,
    Ashot , t’ye karas k’vo yergyi vahangov
    Yarid kakhardir , t’vogh tun ga handov
    Sari sirun yar,sari mekhak ber,
    Akh, ch’e,i՞nch’ mekhak, siro krak ber:




    Հարս եմ գնում,

    Տանից հեռանում
    Տասնեօթ տարեկան,
    Նանի ջան,
    Սիրոյ տիրանում։

    Ինձ բերել ես,
    Սիրել, գուրգուրել,
    Ամակդ ծով արել,
    Նանի ջան,
    Իմ եարին տուել։

    Անուշ կաթդ
    Հալալ ինձ արա,
    Օրհնանքդ թող լինի,
    Նանի ջան,
    Միշտ էլ ինձ վրայ։

    Hars yem gnum,
    Tanits’ herranum
    Tasneot’ tarekan,
    Nani jan,
    Siroy tiranum։

    Indz berel yes,
    Sirel, gurgurel,
    Amakd tsov arel,
    Nani jan,
    Im yearin tuel։

    Anush kat’d
    Halal indz ara,
    Orhnank’d t’vogh lini,
    Nani jan,
    Misht el indz vray։



    Նազելին իմ քնած է, թողեք քնի, զով արե՛ք,
    Ա՜խ սերս թե արթնանա` ժպիտն աչքին զով արեք,
    Դեմքը շաղոտ մի հուր վարդ, սուրբ օջախի զարդ է նա,
    Գուցե նա իր երազում ինձ կտեսնի, զով արեք: Սարի մարմանդ հովիկներ, Օրոր-շորոր ծովիկներ, Գարնանաբույր նազելուս Բարի դեմքին զով արեք:

    Ես էլ նստեմ էս հովին, լուսնի շողից տաղ հյուսեմ,
    Յարիս տունը էս գիշեր սիրո հեքիաթով լցնեմ,
    Նա իմ կյանքն է քաղցրանուշ, կուզենամ միշտ լավ տեսնեմ,
    Երբ արթնանա մուրազով, շողեր հագնի, զով արեք:

    Գուսան Աշոտ, սուրբ ծեգին կաքավ յարս արթնանա,
    Ամպի թևին թև առած մուրազներով բարձրանա,
    Շաղ է իջել երեսին, թե երկնային մանանա,
    Սարից իջնող պաղ ջրեր, լույս երեսին զով արեք: Սարի մարմանդ հովիկներ, Օրոր-շորոր ծովիկներ, Գարնանաբույր նազելուս Բարի դեմքին զով արեք:

    Nazelin im k’nats e, t’voghek’ k’ni, zov are՛k’,
    A՜kh sers t’ye art’nana` zhpitn ach’k’in zov arek’,
    Demk’y shaghot mi hur vard, surb ojakhi zard e na,
    Guts’ye na ir yerazum indz ktesni, zov arek’: Sari marmand hovikner, Oror-shoror tsovikner, Garnanabuyr nazelus Bari demk’in zov arek’:

    Yes el nstem es hovin, lusni shoghits’ tagh hyusem,
    Yaris tuny es gisher siro hek’iat’ov lts’nem,
    Na im kyank’n e k’aghts’ranush, kuzenam misht lav tesnem,
    Yerb art’nana murazov, shogher hagni, zov arek’:

    Gusan Ashot, surb tsegin kak’av yars art’nana,
    Ampi t’yevin t’yev arrats muraznerov bardzrana,
    Shagh e ijel yeresin, t’ye yerknayin manana,
    Sarits’ ijnogh pagh jrer, luys yeresin zov arek’: Sari marmand hovikner, Oror-shoror tsovikner, Garnanabuyr nazelus Bari demk’in zov arek’:

    ​Oh, I really like this one, sorry, no lyrics.

    Gott zur Ehr, dem nächsten zur Wehr

    What if they gave a fire and nobody came.

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  5. #3
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Hey Steve - thanks so much for posting those, particularly because the first two cuts show how Sari Siroun Yar sounds in "folk song" arrangements the way I first heard it (not like the "concertized arrangement" in the cut I posted).

    Also, regarding the Armenian 6/8, I don't know if you can read music, but if you can, this may be of interest to you:

    http://armenianoud.com/scores/SariSirounYar_score.png

  6. #4
    Senior Member feuersteve's Avatar
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    Your welcome, David. No, I'm not a musician. I can kind of follow the up and down pattern and I vaguely remember the length of the notes. But I really like to sing along with the music. That's why I posted the transliterations. I don't have the patience to learn a new alphabet (Four are enough )
    Gott zur Ehr, dem nächsten zur Wehr

    What if they gave a fire and nobody came.

  7. #5
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Regarding your four alphabets: yes - I noticed you are quite the "linguist" in the "old" sense of linguist.

    If you Google me, you'll see references to a couple of my papers from when I was a "linguist" in the "new" sense - I am an "ABD" (all but dissertation) in lingustic theory. but never finished because I got my papers published BEFORE I did the thesis, so I thought it wasn't fair they ALSO wanted me to write a thesis just to satisfy their rules.

    But you obviously have a talent for languages that I will never have. I had a friend in highschool like that - we commuted together on the train, and he would learn languages just by reading the Christian Science Monitor magazines in different languages that were available for free in the train stations! You are a "linguist" like he was.

  8. #6
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    I have to say I'm a little disappointed - I thought there might be some posters to this forum who could think of some good traditional "6/8's" that are on youtube.

    BUT - maybe no one has responded to the post because it has a clip of an Armenian singing a Turkish song instead of an Armenian song? (Well, of course Steve responded, but he doesn't count because he's not Armenian, so he wouldn't be offended by an Armenian singing a Turkish song ... heh heh heh just kidding.)

    OR - maybe all the young Armenians who post here never learned how to "count" a rhythm like their great-grandparents did ... heh heh heh ... just kidding again!
    Last edited by David Halitsky; 01-10-2015 at 08:32 PM.

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  10. #7
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    Hello ^^ i hope that your are fine ?
    some one help me please i don't undertand the words i want a translation of the song of Haig Yazdjian (Hazar Nazov Yar) to English,French or arbic languages
    i just love the armenian song...the armenian culture also !
    Have all a nice day

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