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  1. #1
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Default Learning Greek language

    This thread has nothing to do with lyrics, but with greek grammar. So if anyone has any questions or wants to learn the greek grammar, this is the best place. (I'm sorry for creating this thread here, but I didn't know where to place it!)
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

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  3. #2
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Default The Greek Alphabet

    Α, α (álfa) ------>We pronounce it like a in the word father
    Β, β (víta) ------> We pronounce it like v in the word vote
    Γ, γ (gáma) -------> We pronounce it like w in the word water
    Δ, δ (délta) -------> We pronounce it like th in the word there
    Ε, ε (épsilon) -------> We pronounce it like e in the word elegant
    Ζ, ζ (zíta) ------> We pronounce it like z in the word zoo
    Η, η (íta) ------> We promounce it like i in the word meet
    Θ, θ (thíta) ------> We pronounce it like th in the word theatre
    Ι, ι (yióta) ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
    Κ, κ (kápa) ------> We pronounce it like k in the word cat
    Λ, λ (lámda) ------> We pronounce it like l in the word lamp
    Μ, μ (mi) ------> We pronounce it like m in the word mistake
    Ν, ν (ni) ------> We pronounce it like n in the word not
    Ξ, ξ (ksi) ------> We pronounce it like ks (x) in the word taxi
    Ο, ο (ómikron) ------> We pronounce it like o in the word decoration
    Π, π (pi) ------> We pronounce it like p in the word parrot
    Ρ, ρ (ro) ------> We pronounce it like r in the word rare but a little bit heavier cause english -r is kind of soft
    Σ, σ (sígma) ------> We pronounce it like s in the word soft
    Τ, τ (táf) -------> We pronounce it like t in the word teeth
    Υ, υ (ípsilon) ------> We prononce it like i in the word meet
    Φ, φ (fi) ------> We pronounce it like f in the word fake
    Χ, χ (hi) ------> We pronounce it like h in the word hat
    Ψ, ψ (psi) ------> We pronounce it like ps in the word lips
    Ω, ω (oméga) ------> We pronounce it like o in the word decoration
    Last edited by maria_gr; 05-13-2008 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Pronunciation is now corrected, so read it again
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

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  5. #3
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Default Other combinations

    γκ ------> We pronounce it like g in the word game
    γγ ------> It's the same with the γκ
    μπ ------> We pronounce it like b in the word big
    ντ ------> We pronounce it like d in the word dog
    τζ ------> We pronounce it like g in the word gender
    τσ ------> We pronounce it like ch in the word chair but more clear and soft than the english one

    αι ------> We pronounce it like e in the word elegant
    ει ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
    οι ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
    υι ------> We pronounce it like i in the word meet
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

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  7. #4
    Moonderator panselinos's Avatar
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    Some additional notes from me.

    Actually, in English there is an exact sound for δ (délta). Just like in the word "there".
    So, Θ, θ (thíta) is pronounced like voiceless "th" - as in "thanks", whereas Δ, δ (délta) is voiced "th" - as in "though".

    VOWEL DIGRAMMES

    Binary vowel letterings started their life representing apparently a sequence of two sounds. Gradully their fast utterance was heard as a diphthong. After classical times, in different centuries and different places they were simplified in monophthongs (today's pronunciation). Although modern Greeks pronounce them as one sound, you will often find them listed under 'diphthong' chapters in contemporary grammars. Their historical orthography remains intact.

    In Modern Greek the digramme AI
    1) is pronounced [e]
    a)when without stress at all: αι = [e] - αισθητικό (esthitiko)
    b)or when a stress on its second component: αί = [e] - αίνιγμα (enigma)

    2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ai/ or uttered in a fast diphthong /ai/
    a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in άι = [`ai] [`ai] - Mάιoς (Maios)
    b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in αď = [ai] [ai] - αρχαďκό (arhaiko)
    (also with dialytics+stress at second component αΐ = [a`i]

    ***

    In Modern Greek the digramme EI
    1) is pronounced [i]
    a)when without stress at all: ει = [i] - εικόνα (ikona)
    b)or when a stress on its second component: εί = [i] - είρων (iron)

    2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ei/ or uttered in a fast diphthong /ei/
    a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in έι = [`ei] [`ei]
    b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in εď = [ei] [ei] - γoνεďκό (goneiko)
    (also with dialytics+stress at second component εΐ = [e`i]


    ***

    In Modern Greek, the digramme OI
    1) is pronounced [i]
    a)when without stress at all: oι = [i] - oικoλoγία (ikologia)
    b)or when a stress on its second component: oί = [i]

    2) is pronounced with its components split completely /oi/ or uttered in a fast diphthong /oi/
    a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in όι = [`oi] [`oi] - κoρόιδo (koroido)
    b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in oϊ = [oi] [oi] - κoρoϊδία (koroidia)
    (also with dialytics+stress at second component oΐ = [o`i] - Λοΐζος (LoIzos)


    ***

    In Modern Greek the digramme OY
    1) [u]is pronounced
    a)when without stress at all: oυ = [u] - oυρανός (ouranos)
    b)or when a stress on its second component: oύ = [u]

    2) is pronounced with its components split completely /oi/
    a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in όυ = [`oi]
    b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in oϋ = [oi] - πρoϋπόθεσις (proipothesis)
    (also with dialytics+stress at second component oΰ = [o`i]


    ***

    In Modern Greek the digramme AY is pronounced:
    1) [av] : before vowels and β [v], γ [g], δ [d], ζ [z], λ [l], μ [m], ν [n], ρ [r]
    [af] : in all other cases
    a)when without stress at all: αυ = [af] or [av]
    b)or when a stress on its second component: αύ = [`af] or [`av]

    2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ai/
    a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in άυ = [`ai]
    b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in αϋ = [ai]
    (also with dialytics+stress at second component αΰ = [a`i]


    ***

    In Modern Greek the digramme EY is pronounced:
    1) [ev] : before vowels and β [v], γ [g], δ [d], ζ [z], λ [l], μ [m], ν [n], ρ [r];
    [ef] : in all other cases.

    a)when without stress at all: ευ = [ef] or [ev] - Eυρώπη (Evropi), ευχαριστώ (efharisto)
    b)or when a stress on its second component: εύ = [`ef] or [`ev] εύρηκα (evrika)

    2) is pronounced with its components split completely /ei/
    a) when the stress lies on the first vowel, as in έυ = [`ei]
    b) when there are dialytics (umlaut) on the second vowel as in εϋ = [ei]
    (also with dialytics+stress at second component εΰ = [e`i]

    To be continued...

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  9. #5
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Yes, you've right, but I wanted to go slowly. They have to learn firstly the alphabet and then all the other exceptions.
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Nira Vancopoulos's Avatar
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    wow, I knew about the pronounciation of ai, ei, oi and ou, but when sounds like are write, I didn't. It's a good topic, a very very good topic ... ideal for me that I want to learn this beautiful lenguage *-*

    Bye
    アナタ の コエガ キキタクテ...
    Anata no koega kikitakute...
    ヌクモリ フレタクテ...
    nukumori furetakute...
    アナタエノ オモイ コミアゲテ クル
    anataeno omoi komiagete kuru

  12. #7
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nira Vancopoulos View Post
    wow, I knew about the pronounciation of ai, ei, oi and ou, but when sounds like are write, I didn't. It's a good topic, a very very good topic ... ideal for me that I want to learn this beautiful lenguage *-*

    Bye
    Yes, some times we pronounce them, but i'll say them later. Firstly you have to learn the basic and later the exceptions, cause these are exceptions.
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

  13. #8
    Member shady_david20's Avatar
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    maria i cant draw the letters ??????
    ζ δ and more
    so wat to do ??????????????

  14. #9
    Member shady_david20's Avatar
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    Smile surprise

    maria
    i found the letters in arabic
    here is it
    if i can help arabic speakers










    maria i hope u figured it out
    i no u cant speak arabic
    but am gonna tell u
    1.the 1st column in the left is the name of the greek letter in english
    2.the 2nd one is the name of greek letter in arabic
    3.the 3rd one greek capital letter
    4.greek small letter
    5.greek letter in english

    if u see it u will gonna figure out that the 2 1st pictures are the same but i divided it cuz i cant put them all in one pic .

    and the 3rd pic is some reading letter grammar

  15. #10
    Moonderator panselinos's Avatar
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    Off topic (sorry, can't resist): Wow, shady_david, you're from Egypt? Ancient Egypt is my biggest passion. People around me even say I'm obsessed with it.

    By the way, to be able to type Greek letters, you just need to add the Greek keyboard layout.

  16. #11
    Senior Member lesenna's Avatar
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    It's a wonderful topic!
    I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
    and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?

  17. #12
    Senior Member lesenna's Avatar
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    And why does greek have many "i" sounds?
    I don't know when i can use íta, iota, ípsilon and the combinations ει, οι and υι... In which situations we can use each "i"?

  18. #13
    Moonderator panselinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesenna View Post
    It's a wonderful topic!
    I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
    and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?
    They're not the same.
    Delta is a voiced dental fricative, whereas thita is a voiceless one.
    Try to pronounce "father" and "gothic" and you'll probably hear the difference.
    Yes, "ντ" is the diagramme* that represents [d] as in "day". Although in the middle of the word that same diagramme is pronounced like "nd" - παντα = panda.
    The reason is Greek words do not usually start with the ΝΤ combination. Ηellenized foreign words start with it ([d], that is). It originates mostly from composition of words e.g. εν+τασις = entasis [endasis]. That's why, when NT occurs in the middle of a Greek word, it is pronounced [nd].
    Same goes to the MП combination.

    __________
    *di- δις [δis] - twice + γράμμα [grama] - lettersymbol = two letter combination

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  20. #14
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesenna View Post
    And why does greek have many "i" sounds?
    I don't know when i can use íta, iota, ípsilon and the combinations ει, οι and υι... In which situations we can use each "i"?
    Well, in the past, I mean in ancient Greece, the pronunciation wasn't the same and they read what they were seeing. For example ει wasn't i, but ei and so on. But the pronunciation with the pass of the years has changed. And now this is the new form of our language and the simple grammar who Manolis Triantafillidis had established. Yes, I agree the grammar is more simple than the ancient Greek, but the dictionary so difficult. I admit that I make mistakes myself too! I'll try to tell you all the rules that they exist, but firstly you have to learn the Greek alphabet by heart and then I'll continue. You cannot go to the war if you don't have your weapon, so you cannot continue here if you don't know the alphabet. So there is nothing we can do, that's our language and its richness. For good or for bad, our language is the richest language of the world with 5.000.000 words.
    Last edited by maria_gr; 06-24-2007 at 11:55 PM.
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

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  22. #15
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesenna View Post
    It's a wonderful topic!
    I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
    and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?
    The combination ντ is the real english d.
    If you want to pronounce δ, you must put your tongue on the edge of the teeth that they are up and then you can pronounce it correctly.
    For the θ, you must do the same thing, to put the tongue on the teeth that they are in the top, then close the mouth more and pronounce it. When you pronounce θ it's like you're trying to blow with your tongue on your teeth.

    Well, I know it's difficult to understand so I'll put a link, so you'll be able to here and understand the pronunciation, cause just with words, we do nothing. To here them just click the faces!

    Lesson 0
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

  23. #16
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady_david20 View Post
    maria i cant draw the letters ??????
    ζ δ and more
    so wat to do ??????????????
    You cannot write them down? I hope that this can help you, my friend

    http://www.greece.org/gr-lessons/gr-...Gif/script.gif
    Last edited by maria_gr; 06-25-2007 at 12:23 AM.
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

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  25. #17
    @#MOmderator#@ maria_gr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady_david20 View Post
    maria
    i found the letters in arabic
    here is it
    if i can help arabic speakers










    maria i hope u figured it out
    i no u cant speak arabic
    but am gonna tell u
    1.the 1st column in the left is the name of the greek letter in english
    2.the 2nd one is the name of greek letter in arabic
    3.the 3rd one greek capital letter
    4.greek small letter
    5.greek letter in english

    if u see it u will gonna figure out that the 2 1st pictures are the same but i divided it cuz i cant put them all in one pic .

    and the 3rd pic is some reading letter grammar
    Oh Shady, that's great. An excellent idea really! If anyone from Egypt wants to learn the greek alphabet it will be easier for him. Thanks!
    Άνθρωποι τύχης είδωλον επλάσαντο, πρόφασιν ιδίης αβουλίης.

    ~Δημόκριτος~

  26. #18
    Senior Member penny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesenna View Post
    It's a wonderful topic!
    I've been studying greek alphabet before find this topic... but i am not english speaker as my mother tongue, and coz of it i don't understand abt the delta's pronunciation (δ). For me the sound of "there", "thanks" and "though" is always the same... i cannot see the difference between δ and θ sounds...
    and to pronounce the "d" sound is only throught the combination ντ?
    lesena as you live in brazil I believe (but not for sure) that you have heard some spanish....δ is like d in the middle of a word like navidad,vida (carefull without any n or l before...) and θis like z in spanish from spain (castellano)
    i don't know if i' ve helped but don't worry if you start easy you will learn greek, there are many things to remember especially at the begining butonce you do it will be easier, and thats for anyone DON'T WORRY!

  27. #19
    Senior Member penny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maria_gr View Post
    You cannot write them down? I hope that this can help you, my friend

    http://www.greece.org/gr-lessons/gr-...Gif/script.gif
    Just put the greek layout its in the options, right clik on where the languages are showed

  28. #20
    Senior Member lesenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penny View Post
    lesena as you live in brazil I believe (but not for sure) that you have heard some spanish....δ is like d in the middle of a word like navidad,vida (carefull without any n or l before...) and θis like z in spanish from spain (castellano)
    i don't know if i' ve helped but don't worry if you start easy you will learn greek, there are many things to remember especially at the begining butonce you do it will be easier, and thats for anyone DON'T WORRY!
    Yes, penny, you're right, i live in brazil and i can speak spanish too and your explanation with spanish comparison helped me lots... for the time being, i have only these doubts about δ and the many "i" sounds in greek
    I think i can get almost perfectly greek alphabet, now i can read (only read, not understand lol) some songs, for example, without latin alphabet transcription but without listening greek people talking is a little bit difficult to understand the pronunciation. but i am easy now

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