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  1. #241
    Senior Member tim2286's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istanbulgal View Post
    Hey Tim, what exactly are you suggesting, that Canadians speak confusing English?.
    Canadians live in an icebox, seriously though, visited (didn't know whether to use I'd or I've) Vancouver couple of years ago, March-ish. Froze my butt off (not literally; to those learning English )

  2. #242
    Senior Member PROPEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaresLejanos View Post
    Another example with Past Perfect:

    "I didn't approve the exam because I hadn't studied enough"
    yes.

    although in English (probably just American English), people of the younger generation, dont really use "I hadn't" much. Im not sure if older people use "I hadn't" more, but we useally dont.

    In the sentence you put "I didn't....and.....I hadn't" we useally use either 1, two times. (example) "I didnt like this exam beacause I didn't study enough".
    (using "didn't" 2 times in the sentence)

    We don't really use "didn't" and "hadn't" in 1 sentence, although it does make perfect sense.


    *****That probably didn't help anyone, but..I just felt like I had to put something into this topic *******

  3. #243
    Senior Member istanbulgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim2286 View Post
    Canadians live in an icebox, seriously though, visited (didn't know whether to use I'd or I've) Vancouver couple of years ago, March-ish. Froze my butt off (not literally; to those learning English )
    Well, that is why Canadians have cooler heads than the Americans, didn't you know this?! You're the hotheaded ones for sure.

    A comment like that coming from a Texan, does not surprise me in the least, after all, the weather there is like a hot oven, right or wrong?!. I don't know how you people survive in that heat, I see it will be close to 40C later today, in my city however, (I'm 1 hr. ahead of you I think) it's a perfect, sunny 22C (celcius btw, not fahrenheit, another very important difference between Canadians & Americans!). So, did you like Vancouver?. Btw, what language do you speak, just so that if I need a translation asap, I'll give it to you to do.

    Jandros has not come yet, but I wanted to comment on something you said last night:

    "I see what you're saying about #2 though (I actually wrote 'has' there then changed to 'is' "

    Even if you had written 'has', your sentence would have still been incorrect because 'has' and 'is' are both present, so it would not have changed the outcome. You should have written: (simple tense would have also been ok.)

    I had been told by someone that smoking was bad for my health. (Past Perfect because 'was' implies that you're no longer smoking).
    I have been told by someone that smoking is bad for my health. (Present Perfect because 'is' implies you're still smoking today).

    But you wrote:
    "I had been told [by someone] that smoking is bad for my health" - As you can see, you mixed the present and past - 'had been' and 'is'.

    I repeat however, I'm just a professional amateur, not English teacher at all & not native either, so take it or leave it.

    Stay cool in Texas, if that is possible.
    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
    Albert Einstein

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  5. #244
    Senior Member NikiLas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istanbulgal View Post
    @Niki: Your explanation was very good, but I just have to correct you on one point: there are NO professionals here, we're all amateurs.
    I knew you would see my post and I was referring to your post at the Photo Contest

    Thanks for clearing it up for us! Welcome back!!!

  6. #245
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istanbulgal View Post
    ....
    Anyway, thanks for confusing me, but let's wait & see what Jandros has to say, after all, we're not the native ones, but he is.
    ...
    Aaaah no no no, I can't add anything at all because you're smarter than me!

    Well, ok ... just one little thing ....

    Tim, in your examples of had been/have been, I also want to mention that verb tenses usually don't depend on "who" at all, except third-person singular ... he/she/it has been or I/you/we/they have been. Otherwise for past or present perfect tense, it only depends on whether the action was completed in the past or not.

    Now let me explain why I'm not a perfect teacher: I by-passed (via tests) all university English courses, so I did not get those extra doses of formal education. I know good English extremely well, but sometimes it's hard for me to remember how to explain some of the rules.

    But my son is an English teacher, so I'll ask him to give me a quick refresher course when I visit him again in Texas

    Tim, this is to say you're not alone in the "Texas heat"! I've had my brain cooked many times in the San Antonio and Fort Worth heat, and my kids keep dragging me back for more.

    Istanbulgal, while you were away, this topic was almost dead! But now you're back, and ....... I think I'm feeling a little bit jealous ..... j/k

    I also agree very much about using simpler verb forms whenever possible! It's also part of some formal teaching, to write for understanding, not to impress. Clear communication impresses people more than fancy words. A couple of weeks ago I read that someone wanted to make his resume sound "fancy" and formal. But as one who has read a thousand or more resumes, I want simplicity!!

    But now it's my turn to impress ..... Mares, the letters i.e. represent the Latin words id est, which is literally "that is". E.g. is from Latin exempli gratia, and "for example" is a simple translation, not completely literal.



    Tomorrow (Thursday) I'll be away from my computer all day, so I'll miss you guys again
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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  8. #246
    Senior Member istanbulgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandros View Post
    1. Aaaah no no no, I can't add anything at all because you're smarter than me!

    2. But my son is an English teacher, so I'll ask him to give me a quick refresher course when I visit him again in Texas

    3. Tim, this is to say you're not alone in the "Texas heat"! I've had my brain cooked many times in the San Antonio and Fort Worth heat, and my kids keep dragging me back for more.

    4. Tomorrow (Thursday) I'll be away from my computer all day, so I'll miss you guys again
    1. I'm in full agreement, ooops, I mean disagreement!
    2.
    3. Yes Tim, to quote you, I rather freeze my *** off than have my brain cooked!!!
    4. Have a good day then!
    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
    Albert Einstein

  9. #247
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Thursday was good, but I think I walked about 10 miles! Some people think that computer people are lazy ... by necessity, stuck behind a desk or computer screen all day ... but sometimes that is not the case at all.

    And this week I've cookin' in the sunny South! NC is a mid-Atlantic state, but in the past I've seen temps as high as 106 F, 41 C. If you add typical east-coast humidity to that, then sometimes I have no sympathy for Texans
    _____

    Prepositions and simplicity: Just a quick mention for people who learn formal use of English prepositions, but you might notice that I violate one of the rules occasionally. The rule is: Never end a sentence with a preposition ... on, to, at, for, from, with, as, by. Did I forget any of them?

    I've noticed that TOEFL and other tests might insist on the formal rule above. These are examples of correct formal use of prepositional phrases:

    I need a chair on which to sit.
    I need a pen with which to write a letter.

    But that is so awkward! Simpler forms are almost always preferred in speech and even in writing:

    I need a chair to sit on.
    I need a pen to write with.
    Where are you coming from?
    Who did you arrive with? (formal = With whom did you arrive?)
    What name do you go by? (but even simpler = What name do you use?)

    There is a 30-year-old "effective writing" rule that should also be mentioned after the formal rule in English/ESL or "conversational English" classes:

    A preposition is a word that is ok to end a sentence with

    It's necessary to know the formal rule for tests. But in real life, you will see examples that are incorrect but very acceptable and even preferred in most cases.

    British or older American English teachers might disagree with me. And I don't want to confuse anyone. But if you want to learn good American English, just remember the social rule of simplicity, which also applies in most routine business situations.
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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  11. #248
    Senior Member istanbulgal's Avatar
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    We recently discussed some differences between American (AmE) vs. British (BrE) English & with this in mind, I thought the following links might be helpful to some of you.

    Spelling differences
    http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm

    You might want to get familiar with this list before taking a vacation to England, the US or Canada!
    http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/words.htm

    Have fun!
    Last edited by istanbulgal; 07-02-2009 at 12:19 PM.
    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
    Albert Einstein

  12. #249
    Senior Member Orwa's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for the links, those were sooo useful
    " Those that don't appreciate life..do not deserve life...how much blood are you willing to give to stay alive....live or die...make your choice... " ( Jigsaw)

  13. #250
    Senior Member Orwa's Avatar
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    Hola teachers, i am here again, i wish i could find an answer for my questions:

    And no one know the things we've been through
    Can never measure up to half of what i put you through
    That's why we'll break through

    These sentences are from a song, PLEASE tell me the following:

    1- He says (No one know), isn't it must be (No one know*S*), i have been told that (No one, No body, Everybody, he, she it) must have "S" after the verb.

    2- What's is the meaning of the word "Through" in the three sentences?, i know the original meaning, for example "Through our pain", but in above it doesn't make sense actually.

    3- Why he says "Measure UP", what is the difference between "measure" and "measure up"?
    " Those that don't appreciate life..do not deserve life...how much blood are you willing to give to stay alive....live or die...make your choice... " ( Jigsaw)

  14. #251
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    Orwie-san!!!!

    1- Yes, it's "knows", you're right, "no one" is still singular, so it isn't "they", it refers to neither of each one of many people, it's still a "he" or "she".

    2- Through in this case is "a través" in Spanish (use your Spanish-Arab dictionary ). He means that no one knows the thinkgs they lived or passed "durning" life or certain period of time.

    3- Measure is "To ascertain the dimensions, quantity, or capacity of", for example when you measure the dimensions of a table, to see if it keeps in the room well.
    But measure up means "To be the equal of something; have similar quality.", so what he tries to mean is that "he/she/you" (there is no person written there!!!) can't match (equalize, equate ) even the half that he gave... Or something like that.

    Between, in the third sentence, through means another thing: "break through" -> "To make a sudden, quick advance, as through an obstruction." or "to achieve success after lengthy efforts ", so he's saying something like they will succes after heavy and long efforts.

  15. #252
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Excellent explanations Mares, muy bueno
    Just to expand a little bit:

    In the simplest words, to "measure up" is to be sufficient, enough to satisfy a purpose or a judgment.

    "Through", in all phrases above, means to go, to move, to proceed into something ... even in terms of time ... and then you expect or hope to come out of it. And when you come out of it, then you have succeeded, accomplished, or survived something. It's finished. Even if you only learn how to endure something that still exists, then you've been through it.

    Btw, in your last sentence Orwa, you should say "Why does he say...?" In English, for a question, usually the verb and noun are reversed: Verb first. In this case, "does" is part of the verb ... does say ... and that satisfies the rule.

    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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  17. #253
    Moderador Berna's Avatar
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    Hello everybody

    I just need to know the meaning of the following sentence which really doesn't make any sense to me. I hope you can help

    I don't need no rock to be off the block

    In that way, probably you'll say that 'it doesn't make any sense, I have to see the whole sentence to be able to clarify it clearly ' so I'm writing a part of the lyrics.

    I got, I got a good thing
    Doesn't really matter boy what you have
    I don't need no rock to be off the block
    No more tears you bring, gonna change a thing
    What we have is so real
    You don't need to prove to me how he feels.

    Thanks

  18. #254
    Senior Member Orwa's Avatar
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    Thanks, Very very very much, Ms. Mares & Mr. Jandros, such a great to have this answers, i just have one question more (Please)

    What is the meaning of the "Up-s" "Out-s" in the words, for examples:

    Bring up
    Watch out
    Figure out
    Look out

    and so on.., does it has the same meaning?, or there's something special?, and how i can know the meanings?, could you please tell them to me

    btw, Mr. Jandros....., Istanbulgalita has told me about the "S" in the questions but i always forget, and she said if i made mistake again she will kill me.., so hope with me she won't check this lol
    " Those that don't appreciate life..do not deserve life...how much blood are you willing to give to stay alive....live or die...make your choice... " ( Jigsaw)

  19. #255
    Moderador Berna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orwa View Post

    Bring up
    Watch out
    Figure out
    Look out

    hi, orwa, I'm not a native English speaker but my education is in English and I think I can help you with 'phrasal verbs'

    to bring up- to grow a child

    watch out- pay attention to/ to be careful

    to figure out- to understand/to find out
    to look out- to avoid/ to care

    as you see, the meaning totally changes, you should learn them by heart, this is the only way. I hope I can help

  20. #256
    Moderator Spring's Avatar
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    Here's an excellent dictionary which also has phrasal verbs and idioms: http://www.thefreedictionary.com

    My first thought when someone brings up "bring up" is exactly that - the number 2 bellow

    bring up
    1. To take care of and educate (a child); rear.
    2. To introduce into discussion; mention.
    3. To vomit.
    4. To cause to come to a sudden stop.

    But I had no idea it also means "to vomit"! lol

  21. #257
    Senior Member Orwa's Avatar
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    Thanks Bernita & Spring.., but could you tell me which words has the ''up'', ''out'' together with it, i mean like bring up..., what other words?, thanks, very much in advance.
    " Those that don't appreciate life..do not deserve life...how much blood are you willing to give to stay alive....live or die...make your choice... " ( Jigsaw)

  22. #258
    Moderador Berna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orwa View Post
    Thanks Bernita & Spring.., but could you tell me which words has the ''up'', ''out'' together with it, i mean like bring up..., what other words?, thanks, very much in advance.
    in fact every word can take then the meaning changes again

    look

    Bring up-- bring out---bring in---- bring on-----bring down
    Watch out---watch for---- watch over----
    Figure out-----figure in---figure on----figure up---
    Look out----look for--- look into---look up---

    there isn't a rule about them, you only should learn them by heart orwa, I don't know another way to learn them.

  23. #259
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Verna and Spring, my compliments on so many nice variations and examples! To continue this theme:

    Watch out!! or Look out!! ... Be careful!! ... use it like Stop!!! ... if the person is going to something harmful, this very moment.

    Watch out for ... same as Look for, or Look out for, someone or something that you expect to see, or an event that you expect to happen.

    Figure on ... expect ... is interesting. It might be used as a critical or mildly sarcastic response ... almost slang, definitely informal. Examples:

    Did you figure on getting something for nothing?
    (Did you expect to get ...)

    Do you figure on actually using that gun???
    (Do you plan to shoot me??)

    Or more mildly, more neutral in tone: Do you figure on getting a new job and making a better salary? (Do you expect to get ... and make ...)

    Orwa, some of these phrases are very complicated for remembering correct usage. As Berna said, it can take a lot of time and experience with phrases like this.

    Figure in is like factor in or calculate: Did you figure in the cost of monthly services, as part of the total cost?

    There are so many variations that it's impossible to cover all of them in a few minutes
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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  25. #260
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berna View Post
    Hello everybody

    ...
    I don't need no rock to be off the block
    First, of course "I don't need no" is an incorrect double-negative, but it's extremely common in music. Colorful, creative license, no problem

    I would say that "to be off the block" is just creative slang ... rhyming rock with block ... cheap poetry? ... it's really hard to give the phrase a real definition. I would just consider it a quick-and-easy line that can only be defined by the rest of the verse
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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