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  1. #121
    Senior Member Loca-por-Ba!le's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikiLas View Post
    I found a table of verbs that are followed by -ing verbs (gerunds,) although I don't know how to paste that table in here, so please click on the link:
    http://wps.ablongman.com/long_faigle....cw/index.html

    or here is the list:
    admit (to)
    delay
    get used to
    practice
    risk
    appreciate
    deny
    look forward to
    put off
    stop
    avoid
    discuss
    imagine
    recommend
    suggest
    be accustomed to
    dislike
    keep (on)
    regret
    tolerate
    be used to
    enjoy
    (not) mind
    report
    understand
    can’t help
    feel like
    miss
    resent
    consider
    finish
    postpone
    resist


    all of the above can be followed by "doing something"
    oh, Thank u. It's helpful.
    ThanX

  2. #122
    Senior Member Loca-por-Ba!le's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istanbulgal View Post
    @Jandros: No, you have not forgotten anything, there is no such list, the verbs fitting that category are endless. Loca-or-Baile: what gave you the impression there was a restricted list?. Just about any verb can be in gerund.
    haha No one told me that. Just we had, in our school, some verbs followed with verbs with "ing" and others with "infinitive". And I didn't ask about the list of verbs can be in gerund, but follwed by verbs ending with "ing"

    Quote Originally Posted by istanbulgal View Post
    By and with are prepositions with many, many uses. Dictionaries are very helpful in explaining definitions & appropriate use.

    Additional examples below:

    Little by little, I'm improving my oral & written English skills.
    By the way, what are you doing this weekend?
    I am a lawyer by profession, but I wish I studied something else.
    Be sure to get home by no later than 9 p.m.!
    How did you mail the letter?. I mailed it by or via courier.
    Did you win the race?. Yes, but by just 5 seconds.

    With:

    I don't enjoy being with you anymore.
    With him I can accomplish anything.
    How much is it? With or without tax?
    Did you fight with Orwie?
    "Gone with the Wind" is a great movie.
    I prefer pasta with white sauce.
    Thanx 4 the help. I just wanted to make sure from the info our teacher told us, as I told jandros.

    Thank u for ur effort.

  3. #123
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angeliki View Post
    Oh I have never been in this thread. I can confidently help here if needed. The Conservative Supremes may have another purpose other than singing
    Well, we could say that there is some commonality of purpose, like singing the same song in 4 or 5 different languages
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

  4. #124
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spring View Post
    It's like that in the original lyrics but I can't translate it like that which is why I'm in search for a different Eng sentence ...
    I don't want to be accused of "beating this horse to death" but I have a couple of final thoughts:

    I didn't mention this before, but when I first read the English lyrics, I wondered if they were translated from another language ... from Eng to something else, and then back to Eng. That's why I also questioned "taking my heart to pieces". But now I can see some sense in that, like "taking down a building". It's not a common use of "take", but it's not bad English.

    "Hey child, stay wilder than the wind and blow me in to cry" ... let's try a bit of dissection of the entire sentence:

    "stay wilder than the wind and blow me in" ... a metaphor, makes good poetic sense ... "blow me in to cry" ... when you need to cry, or if you feel like crying, invite me in. Like the wild wind, blow me into your mind or your presence.

    Does that make sense to you? Does it help at all?
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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  6. #125
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spring View Post
    ...
    But... you do realize agreeing and sympathizing is sometimes more valuable than finding (an alternative) solution...?
    ...
    Yes, my feelings exactly ... this is a good example of the cliché "Misery loves company"
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

  7. #126
    Moderator Spring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandros View Post

    Does that make sense to you? Does it help at all?
    Was that a rhetorical question?


    That horse should have been beaten to death 5 years ago but better late than never and my misery is grateful for your assistance in the crime!

  8. #127
    Senior Member Orwa's Avatar
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    Good morning Teachers.... ((Jandros, Istanbulgal, Angelikie and Nikilas))

    I got many questions for you all, it's as follow:

    1) What's the difference between "Even though" & "Even if", mean, is there's any rules for using them?

    1- I'll drive the car even if my dad didn't allow to me
    2- I'll drive the car even though my dad didn't allow to me

    __________________________________________________

    2) What's the difference between "Who" & "Whom" & Which", mean:

    1- That's the person who took the car
    2- The person whom i need isn't here
    3- That's the person which like to scare people
    " Those that don't appreciate life..do not deserve life...how much blood are you willing to give to stay alive....live or die...make your choice... " ( Jigsaw)

  9. #128
    Moderator Spring's Avatar
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    hm... Even though I am not in the teachers team, I think the first one is not correct i.e. should be
    1- I'll drive the car even if my dad doesn't allow to me
    so, I'd say that we use Even if for present (where there is uncertainty) and Even though for past (something that we already know how it was)

    Even though
    = despite the fact that
    Even if = whether or not

    And, in simple words:
    - Who is for people, Which is for things (That can be used for both)
    In this case I suppose it should be
    3- That's the person who likes to scare people

    - And I don't know if this is exemption from the rule or what but we also use Which when there are options to choose from, like:

    *Which one of the two guys do you like better?

    Try this - click

    Whom is object, Who is subject

  10. #129
    Senior Member istanbulgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orwa View Post
    1) What's the difference between "Even though" & "Even if", mean, is there's any rules for using them?

    1- I'll drive the car even if my dad didn't allow to me
    2- I'll drive the car even though my dad didn't allow to me

    __________________________________________________

    2) What's the difference between "Who" & "Whom" & Which", mean:

    1- That's the person who took the car
    2- The person whom i need isn't here
    3- That's the person which like to scare people
    1. The meaning is not the same as Spring has mentioned above, so you need to understand the difference in order to use correctly.

    a) Even if: means 'whether or not'. Remember that 'if' is a conditional word, ie: a probability of an event happening. Study examples below:

    Even if I had the money, I would not buy an expensive car.
    Tell them the truth even if you think they will get upset.
    I was out all day today, but even if I had stayed home, I would have been happy.
    Even if you're sure of the outcome, don't be too confident.

    b) Even though: means despite the fact of, or in spite of, examples below written in 2 different ways:

    Even though he studied very hard, he did not do so well.
    Despite the fact that he studied very hard, he did not do so well.

    I must pay attention even though I feel very tired.
    I must pay attention despite the fact that I feel very tired.

    Even though they did not speak English well, I still understood them.
    Despite the fact that they did not speak English well, I still understood them.

    Even though I have an impressive resumé, I know they won't hire me.
    Despite the fact that I have an impressive resumé, I know they won't hire me.

    As I explained above, even if/even though, do not have the same meaning, therefore, you cannot write the same sentence and simply change one for the other as you did in your example below.

    1- "I'll drive the car even if my dad didn't allow to me" - your sentence is in future, therefore, ..even if my dad won't allow me to.
    The above sentence is expressing that 'whether or not' your dad gives you permission, you will drive the car, thus, it is expressing the probability that you will do something, but it's not a sure thing.

    2- "I'll drive the car even though my dad didn't allow to me" - remember that in this case, the sentence is supposed to mean 'despite the fact that', therefore rephrase as follows:
    I'll drive the car even though I know my dad won't allow me to.
    The above sentence is expressing that 'despite the fact that' your dad won't give you permission to drive the car, you will anyway - in this scenario, the action is more certain.

    **********************

    2) Who/Whom

    a) Who: is a 'subject pronoun' used in reference to persons & it expresses 'who' does the action. Examples:

    Do you know who broke the window? Yes, Orwa did!
    Who is the President of the USA? I'll be disappointed if you don't know the answer.
    You'll never guess who I saw at the park yesterday?. I saw Mares!

    b) Whom: is an 'object pronoun' replacing a direct object, ie: it points out the person 'receiving' the action. Examples:

    Whom are you going to invite to your b'day party?.
    That is the person whom I told you about.
    Whom should I say is calling?

    How to identify 'subject pronoun' vs. 'object pronoun': subject: I, he, she, we, etc., it's those performing the action. Object: me, him, them, etc., it's those for whom the action is being done and/or received.

    1) "That's the person who took the car" - yes, because 'he' did the action, therefore, it's a subject pronoun.
    2- The person whom i need isn't here - yes, because you are talking about 'him', therefore, it's an object pronoun.

    Any additional explanation and/or correction would be appreciated!

    You have a week to study before the quiz.
    Last edited by istanbulgal; 04-20-2009 at 01:16 PM.
    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
    Albert Einstein

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  12. #130
    Senior Member NikiLas's Avatar
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    Hi.
    First, I want to thank you guys for being so nice!!! I feel very pleased right now )))

    Dear Orwa, I can hardly call myself a teacher, I get confused with all those rules myself sometimes!!! =)) It's not a rule, but helps me to decide which one to use: if something already happen, then it's *Even though* If it can happen in the future, use *Even if*

    Please correct me if I'm wrong

  13. #131
    Senior Member istanbulgal's Avatar
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    @Nikilas/Spring:

    I think another song with the 'come undone' lyrics, albeit much easier to interpret.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F9-F...eature=related
    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
    Albert Einstein

  14. #132
    Senior Member NikiLas's Avatar
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    to Istanbulgal:

    thanx, but I'm not a big fan of Avril Lavigne, exactly because her lyrics are easy to interpret

    and: that's a good job on grammar!!!

  15. #133
    Senior Member istanbulgal's Avatar
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    @Niki: you're right, but she's still pretty young though, let's see what she'll come up with 10 years from now, assuming she's still in the music world. For now, I just wanted to give Spring a little relief from Duran Duran!
    Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.
    Albert Einstein

  16. #134
    Senior Member Orwa's Avatar
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    TEACHERS, Spring & Istanbulgalita and NiKiLaS, thank you three sooooo veryyyyy toooooooooo extremely much, i'll read carefuly tomorrow cuz now i am soo sleepy, it's 1.03 am, so please forgive
    " Those that don't appreciate life..do not deserve life...how much blood are you willing to give to stay alive....live or die...make your choice... " ( Jigsaw)

  17. #135
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istanbulgal View Post

    a) Even if: means 'whether or not' ... conditional ...

    b) Even though: means despite the fact of ...

    ...

    Any additional explanation and/or correction would be appreciated!
    No "corrections" from me of course, just a little reinforcement

    If something actually happened, it is a known fact, use "Even though".

    If there is doubt about a fact, if you're not sure ... maybe it's true, but you don't know? ... then use "Even if". Example:

    Did your father say you could not drive the car? I don't know. But even if he already said it, I'll also tell you now. Don't drive the car.
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

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  19. #136
    Senior Member Jess31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandros View Post
    Spring, it's the same for people and police: The people are, or people are

    Actually I'm glad this topic is getting active again, because I love to help with English. So bring on your questions Spring, and anyone else!
    Mmmhhhh I know I'm a bit late....but my English teacher, to make things easy, always told us to remember: PL-PL-PL which means PEOPLE-POLICE-PLURAL

  20. #137
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikiLas View Post

    If it can happen in the future, use *Even if*

    Please correct me if I'm wrong
    Yes, I think that's a good general rule. It's indefinite, not known. If it will happen ... whether or not it happens ... whether it happens or not
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

  21. #138
    Senior Member chameleon's Avatar
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    hi all
    i dont remember any of this when i was at school
    (Even though, Even if)
    i always use (even if),, if its happen in past and mite/will happen in the future never (even though)
    and when we say whom/who, ive never use (whom) i use (who) for everythink

    how
    When the world is on your shoulder Gotta straighten up your act and boogie down" lol

  22. #139
    Senior Member jandros's Avatar
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    Cham, a lot of native-English speakers also use "who" for everything so in most cases it would sound ok ... not correct, but ok. But to be correct, just remember to use "whom" after the prepositions for, of, to, by, at ... for whom ... "To whom are you speaking?" ...... but most of the time you'll hear people say "Who are you talking to?" But that's not correct

    As for even though/if, this is probably the easiest thing to remember: If you know that something happened or is true, use "even though".
    Having problems with vertigo for 2-3 days ... it's temporary, a mild case and it will pass, but for now I can't stay on the computer as much as normal :-/ ...

  23. #140
    Senior Member Loca-por-Ba!le's Avatar
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    Hi all teachers here.

    A new job! ... Now I have a doubt in this replay mine. Plz correct it for me.

    "Well. Verbs in Egyptian dialect are not that different from the clasical ones, as u imagin. Almost most of the verbs you wrote have the same meanings in Eyptian dialect, except some ones. So I'll write the verbs which have different meanings in Egyptian dialect. OK?"

    Which one can I say: "I'll write you ..." , "I'll write for you the verbs which have..." or "I'll write the verbs ..... for you"? (Or u want me to delete this phrase "for you" basicly? )

    ThanX in advance

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