Learning Serbian /Croatian/Bosnian

Originally Posted by tedinkyyy

Hey thank ya all...
I'm sorry but the damn Slovenian confused me... in slo is"hocem" and I thought it's probably the same in srb/cro...
In that case I stay with the idea that "hocu da..." is better to say in srb and hocu kupiti is better to say in cro

to confuse you even more, in northern-croatian dialect you can also say "hocem"

You can say: "Htela bih (sebi) kupiti, and you'll sound like a snob here or " 'Oću si kupim" like a peasant! Just to joke a bit

@ ina :haha yep to me it seems strange too when listening some blg-studying ppl expressing themselves in such a literal language that nobody here would use
@ miki444: I know cro is closer to slo u say "tisoc" like Slovenes not "hiljada "like Serbians or Bulgarians Right? At least I think I heard it in a song hmmm

not exactly, we say "tisuća"
while i wouldn't say that cro is generally closer to slovenian, i think that's only the case with kajkavian - the northern dialect. (which i speak btw., that's why i didn't immediately recognise the failure with hocem )

To make things clearer, yes, in standard croatian language the form ''hoću kupiti'' is correct, 'hoću da kupim' is not used in croatian language.

@ miki444: to be honest I heard something like "tisoc" in that song and cuz I'm further with Slovenian than with Croatian I decided it should be probably like the Slovenian word... hmm I'm afraid the great mix is now a fact with me
@D&M : thank u really cuz there was a little arguing here bout that

It my cause some confusion how to make difference between future and present form, like for example
if one wants to say ''I will buy'' then one will say ''Kupit ću'' but if one wants to say ''I want to buy'' then it will be like ''Želim (si) kupiti''
Hoću kupiti will be understood as 'Želim kupiti' more probably than as ''Kupit ću''

Hey Serbian ppl come here and tell me if what Dangerous & Moving said concerns Serbian too or only Croatian?
Thank u D&M for this explanation Everything that sb of ya here add helps me really

For the record: I really miss Serbo-Croatian!!!

now.. in Serbian..

if one wants to say ''I will buy'' then one will say ''Kupiću'' but if one wants to say ''I want to buy'' then it will be like ''Želim da kupim...''
Hoću kupiti will be understood as ---> I am lost in lijepa nasa srpska jezika : ))

If we are talking about dialects etc.. I really don't even want to imagine what word constructions are possible in Southern Serbia ... lol

Doesn't it exist still Serbo-croatian?
And my God what happened with the thanking-system? I can't thank anybody at the moment!

@ Tedi - No it does not exist dear, it is separated now in couple of languages - main Serbian and Croatian... Which makes us all here so confused at times


@ Spring - ce si kupim mori haha..

Yea, in the South-east Serbia in Serbo-Bulgarian/Macedonian mixture, "the old language" "narodni" of my grandmother and it would be:
Have you bought it?---> Ma jesil si (or jesi li si) kupil to? )))
nož'k instead of nožić, mali nož, uradil instead of uradio, zamenjua instead of zamenjivao ....


Serbo-Croatian I saw in Skype option- choose the language. You have there Serbian, Croatian and Serbo-croatian!

@ both Adrienne & ina:some ppl still call that language Serbo-Croatian maybe in order not to list them all 4.In fact I don't know what's the difference between all thos nations... they speak almost equal language.Maybe only religion separates them?
ina, I've seen that option in skype too.Maybe for ppl from Bosnia/Montenegro, cuz actually there aren't such options there.
Uhh and that"uradil'is a typically blg style we say l instead of ur o

Well.. I use skype in English - it's safest lol and I really wonder what they made to be Serbo-Croatian? Eastern or Western variant? OMG I don't even know anymore how was the language merged into one if at all?! I suppose it was Serbian - on RTS and Croatian on Zagreb TV

tedinky, you can read this Wikipedia article if you want a long story: Serbo-Croatian language

Short story: there was always many dialects and different languages - Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, Slovenian and while the country was whole - one official language - Serbo-Croatian. When the country split, each of the countries made their own language: Serbian stayed the same, Croatians made some changes to their official language to make it more "their own", Macedonian and Slovenian were different to begin with, and then Bosnians decided to make their language a separate one and now Montenegrin as well. No offense to anyone, but, in my opinion, the last two are the same as if Southern Serbia would suddenly separate and declare their dialect - a language)


Adrienne, nice to see you back

Originally Posted by tedinkyyy

And my God what happened with the thanking-system? I can't thank anybody at the moment!

It is probably because you can only thank 5 times per day (or 3 I am not sure)

@tedinkyyy - first of all, of course we're not the same nation separated only by religion, we're all slaves of course, but not the same, maybe the difference between for example serbs and croats is less then for example croats and russians or any other slaves but it's because we live rather close to each other. Our cultures are different, customes etc. As for language, in Yugoslavia they wanted to make one language out of these two which was called Serbo - Croatian that's why our standard languages are pretty similar now, but when you look at the dialect which of course are important part of the language they are very different.
And as for Bosnian or Montenegrin languages, I don't see them as different languages, I see them as mixtures of serbian and croatian, and in bosnian they added lots of turkish words cos of turkish influence.

Ah, well, that's my opinion.

Honestly I dont see Montenegrin nor Bosnian as new language, but the same thing happened with Croatian which was much more similair to Serbian before than it is now. When the two languages separated a lot of words were changed in Croatian which was funny and strange at first - e.g. NOGOMET instead of FOOTBALL etc.
I think the same thing is happening now with Montenegrin, which sounds stupid at the time now, bunt in couple of years or so, the same thing will happen as with Croatian. "New" words will emerge, and it will be considered a new, different language..


And thank you Spring dear, it's always good to be back!

I don't know why lots of serbs think that word such as Nogomet are invented after the independence. Those are not so new croatian words, the fact that you didn't hear them before doesn't make them new. Word ''nogomet'' was used in Yugoslavia too, by croatian ppl of course.
Also I have one serbian friend and she thought that words like okolostomachni pantalo-drzac and so on.... that's joke... jeeeeeeeez

Well yes DM... it was quite shocking for us I must say.. the changes that we heard on Croatian TV and we joked that now there are words like "okolo stomacni pantalodrzac"

Now I've found on the net an interesting sentence that says

"okolo stomačni pantalodržač" prestaje postojati tamo gdje se prestaješ voziti u vozu a počinješ vlačiti u vlaku i postaje "okolo trbusni hlačodržač"

Pa jos malo takvih stvari.. na jednom forumu - rasprava na temu da li postoji Bosanski:

jeste u pravu si postoji bosanski jezik
>policajac-pendrek efendija
>kurva - sokak hanuma
>kais-okolo trbusni pantalodrzac
>oluk-okolo kucno popisalo

Ko kaze da nema bosanskog jezika - taj laze! Haj prevedi ovo ako si mangup!
>
> Bakterija je sejtan baja koja zivi u havi i ako udje u insana i ufati furseta, ne odes li za heftu kod hecima, ne gine ti dzenaza.
>
> Sintaksa, ritam recenice, potvrda su da bosanski jezik odista jeste jezik bogat stilom. Sva sumnja u egzistenciju spomenutog jezika ovim je osporena.

No, those jokes I dont support at all, though you must admit there are words that were just INVENTED, if not nogomet, than some others... That was kind of violent change of one language...

I have account on facebook and I'm member of a group 'Let's use facebook to end Serbo-Croatian hatred'' in that group there's a forum and one of the topics is just about languages, I was never discussing there cos I'm still far from being linguist but there are some educated ppl and it's really interesting to read their discussions. I'll copy 3 last posts.

Krešimir Međeral-Sučević je napisao/la

Već sam objasnio o čemu je tu riječ. Dakle, gledano lingvistički, ne postoje ni hrvatski, ni srpski. Postoje samo štokavski, kajkavski, čakavski i torlački. U jezičnom smislu (dakle, ako gledamo kriterije kao što su izoglose, koje su jedini pravi kriterij za lingvističko razgraničavanje) TO su jedini jezici na području između slovenskoga i makedonskoga/bugarskoga.

Hrvatski, srpski, bošnjački i crnogorski su nazivi za standardne jezike, pri čemu sva četiri ta standardna jezika zahvaćaju pojedine dijelove štokavskoga (i na njemu im se temelje ti standardi), a hrvatski još i čitav kajkavski i čakavski, te srpski još čitav torlački.
Upravo je zato blesavo kad čujem priče o tome kako su bošnjački ili crnogorski umjetni pojmovi ili kvazijezici - dok bi hrvatski ili srpski vjerojatno trebali biti realne činjenice. Istina je zapravo da bošnjački i crnogorski nisu ništa manje umjetni ili prirodni od hrvatskoga i srpskoga, jedino se njihova standardizacija odigrala kasnije. No ni hrvatski ni srpski ne postoje prije standardizacije.

E sad, postoji i treći kriterij - kriterij vlastitog odabira naziva jezika. Tako će etnički Srbi u Hrvatskoj tvrditi da govore srpski, a etnički Hrvati u Vojvodini da govore hrvatski, iako će ono što oni govore biti sličnije hrvatskom/srpskom. U BiH se pak govor neće razlikovati po etničkim linijama (hoće po regionalnim, pa tako Hercegovci govore drugačije od Bosanaca), ali će svatko tvrditi da govori po svome.

I dajte da se jednu stvar dogovorimo: nemojte rabiti izraze poput "istarski", "dalmatinski", "zagorski", jer oni nisu nikakvi lingvistički pojmovi. U Istri se govore tri autohtona čakavska dijalekta (buzetski, sjevernočakavski i jugozapadni istarski), te još dva naknadno naseljena (područja srednjočakavskoga i južnočakavskoga), zatim ima naknadno doseljenog štokavskog stanovništva, a postoji i crnogorska enklava u Peroju.
U Dalmaciji pak postoji srednjočakavski (do Ugljana), južnočakavski (od Pašmana do Korčule), lastovski (na Lastovu), novoštokavski ikavski (u čitavom priobalju između Cetine i Neretve, te u zaleđu sjeverno od Cetine, odakle sve više prodire i na obalu - u Šibeniku je prodro već u 16. stoljeću) i novoštokavski ijekavski (južno od Neretve, na istoku Pelješca i na dubrovačkim otocima - Mljetu i Elafitima).

Iz ovoga je razvidno da ne postoji ništa što bismo mogli zvati "istarskim" ili "dalmatinskim".

this guy is linguist.

then other posts:

Sergio Van Maravic (Serbia) je napisao/la

Hm malo je sebicno reci da je u ostalim jezicima u korenu srpski lili kako da ga nazovemo na vecem nivou slovenski samo sto su ubacivane reci iz drugih jezika po cemu se parvi ta razlika naravno pricamo o knjizevnom jeziku posto u narodu se retko njime i koristimo hrvatki jezik ima primese nemackoga poljskog ruskog ... bosanski je zadrzao vecinu turcizama itd. Samo sto smo dozvolili politici da mesa prste u jezike cak sam citao u enciklopediji da je veca razlika izmedju engleskog jezika u kanadi britaniji i americi nego nas jezik na balkanupa se i dalje zove engleski nije podeljen na americki kanadski itd. isto sta sam procitao da je sve isti jezik koji je podeljen iz politickih razloga to mozete naci u encarti 2009 pozdrav

And again Krešimir

Krešimir Međeral-Sučević je napisao/la

Problem je da se uvijek u tim raspravama "isti jezik - nije isti jezik" uspoređuju standardni hrvatski i standardni srpski. Evo, ako hoćete neki ekvivalent s engleskim, onda bi zapravo trebali pod stranu britanskog engleskog trebali obuhvatiti i škotski (pritom mislim na Scotts, ne na Scottish Gaelic), a pod stranu američkoga crnački (Black English Vernacular). Škotski i BVE su međusobno posve nerazumljivi, iako se standardni britanski RP engleski i nekakav standardni američki mogu nazvati jednim jezikom. Postavlja se pitanje je li moguće i dopustivo svesti čitav hrvatski i čitav srpski samo na štokavski i onda tvrditi da su isti. Mene kako kajkavca to itekako smeta.