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  1. #261
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nur_Demir View Post
    is there a letter in macedonian that is equivalent of the croatian/serbian đ
    There is: "Ѓ, ѓ".

    However, it is not a one-for-one equivalent. The Serbian/Croatian is a soft "đ" whereas the Macedonian is hard (and dry.

    Тhe same holds for the Macedonian "Ќ, к" as compared to the Serbian/Croatian "ć".

    Regards,
    M

  2. #262
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    I hope nobody will mind if I do a correction.

    Quote Originally Posted by виктор View Post
    Здраво сите,

    Јас сум го погледав едно убаво кино преквчера. Го се викаше "Големата вода".

    Киното беше многу доброто!

    Го гледате ли некое?

    Здраво на сите,

    Гледав едeн убав филм завчера. Се вика "Големата Вода".

    Филмот е многу добар/убав!

    Го гледал ли некој?


    Ciao,
    M
    Last edited by Milka; 04-09-2010 at 11:52 PM.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by milka View Post
    i am a former professional interpreter/translator and please do not hesitate to ask anything you want to know about macedonian.

    It is not latin but medieval macedonian, the two letters just happen to coincide. :-)

    as far as i know, the only latin letter is "j, j".

    Милке, буквата j е сръбска, а не наша. В средновековните текстове я няма. Нито пък я има в текстовете до 1944 г. Съвременната азбука е създадена едва през 1945 г. и е направена да бъде близка до сръбската азбука (поради политически причини).

    Milka, the letter J is Serbian, it is NOT ours. This letter is NOT present in the medieval texts. Nor it is present in the texts up to 1944. The nowadays alphabet was created just in 1945 and it is made to be close to the Serbian alphabet (due to political reasons).

  4. #264
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b'lgarin_ot_ohrid View Post
    The nowadays alphabet was created just in 1945 and it is made to be close to the Serbian alphabet (due to political reasons).
    The Macedonian alphabet has been codified by Macedonians to serve the Macedonian speakers/writers, and it does so perfectly.

    By contrast, the "Slavobulgarian" alphabet was completely transported from/by the Russians -- from the Russian civic alphabet (граѓанска азбука).

    That is not surprising given that Russia literally created modern Bulgaria, while Russians wrote its history (I. Venelin), codified its language, and wrote its first grammar.

    There was only one change in the "Slavobulgarian" alphabet (actually two) since 1945 on the orders of the Russian scientists to make "Slavobulgarian" closer to Russian, while make it more distant from the Macedonian.

    Talking about political purpose and involvement.

    The letters like "Љ", "Њ", "Џ", "Ѕ", "Ќ", "Ѓ" were used by some Macedonians in the 19th century like Georgija Pulevski. I suppose you haven't heard of the Tetovo dialect of the Macedonian language.

    The letter "j", tough considered Latinic, was toyed with many Macedonians who wanted to break away from the impractical Russian letters which signified two sounds. Krste Misirkov or Konstantin Miladinov as well as others wrote "j" or "i" in the Cyrrilic texts and wanted to establish their use as a rule.
    Last edited by Milka; 04-15-2010 at 06:17 PM.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milka View Post
    I suppose you haven't heard of teh Tetovo dialect of the Macedonian language.
    My roots are from the Resen region (in the Republic of Macedonia) and my family together with many other Bulgarian families was forced to emigrate to free Bulgaria after the Serbians took control of Resen in 1919. On my grandmother's side, we come from Ohrid (my grandmother was born there).


    Quote Originally Posted by Milka View Post
    The letter "j", tough considered Latinic, was toyed with many Macedonians who wanted to break away from the impractical Russian letters which signified two sounds. Krste Misirkov or Konstantin Miladinov as well as others wrote "j" or "i" in the Cyrrilic texts and wanted to establish their use as a rule.

    Milka, sorry, your arguments do not hold true. The letter "j" has never been used by Bulgarian authors such as the Miladinovi brothers or anybody else who wrote in Bulgarian. Please support your claims with proofs.

    Please, have a look here:
    https://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/bu...tml#post712120
    to see how prominent figures - such as Kiril Peychinovich, Yoakim Karchovski, Yordan Hadzhikonstantinov-Dzhinot, Rayko Zhinzifov, the Miladinovi brothers, etc. - wrote and what they called their language and ethnicity.

  6. #266
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    Sorry, my arguments are very true and correct.


    1. Bulgarian is a turkic language, that is a fact. Тhat is the language of Khan Asparuh, the person who moved from Altai-Mongolia to the Balkans with his Bulgarian hordes and created the medieval khaganate of Bulgaria. Such people never-ever populated Macedonia nor mixed with the Macedonians.

    http://www.kyrgyz.ru/?page=30%20[.%20.%20.%20.%20.

    http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90010




    2. What you call Bulgarian today has nothing to do with that original and still existing turkic language. It has to do with use and misuse of the term "Bulgarian" by various actors in recent Balkan history.

    The blanket term "Vulgaroi" (meaning simple, rough, uneducated people) was used by:

    (1) The East Roman Empire (Byzantium) for anyone who was not "Roman" nor not spoke Church Greek. All Serbs, Macedonians, Bosnian, Montenegrins, Thracians etc. were called "Bulgarians". It has nothing to do with nationality.



    (2) By Russia when it created modern Bulgaria. The term was then the adopted to be synonymous for "Slav", "Christian" or for member of the masses "rayah", among many other different meanings.

    Aleksandar Teodorov Balan writes in 1905 in "One Macedonian Theory" that the peasants in what is today Bulgaria called even the Russian tzar - Bulgarian.



    (3) I can list many examples of the existence of Macedonian language mentioned as such. Here are two:

    A. Georgi Pulevski, year 1892:

    "The Slavic language has five differences. Those are: Russian, Croatian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, and Macedonian".

    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3...eski002cn2.jpg

    http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7...eski003ee2.jpg

    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...eski001xo8.jpg

    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3...eski006si4.jpg


    B. Albert Wirth, year 1914:

    "Die Bulgaren konnen im Kanigreich mit 3,2 Millionen angenommen werden, zusammen mit den Mazedonier 4 Millionen."

    http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...th_1914_02.jpg

    (Albrecht Wirth, "Der Balkan, Seine Lunder und Volker in Geschichte, Kultur, Politik, Volkswirtschaft, und Weltverkehr", Stuttgart, 1914)



    (4) As for your ancestry, there never were any turco-mongol Bulgars in Resen. Of course, you are free to identify with them (their descendants today are called Tatari, Chuvashi, and Gagauzi). But we Macedonians, descendants of the native Macedonians, have nothing to do with these people.

    http://www.bulgars.ru/english/volga.htm

  7. #267
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    Dear Milka,

    I see your weak and false arguments and your attempts to insult Bulgarians. That shows a low level of culture. I am glad that Macedonistic propaganda is weaker and weaker - I have relatives and friends in Ohrid and Resen who are Bulgarians and as the time goes by, more and more people realize the falsifications of Macedonistic propaganda. FYROM was (and to some extent still is) like George Orwell's book "1984".


    By the way, please, have a look here:
    https://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/bu...tml#post712120
    to see how prominent figures - such as Kiril Peychinovich, Yoakim Karchovski, Yordan Hadzhikonstantinov-Dzhinot, Rayko Zhinzifov, the Miladinovi brothers, etc. - wrote and what they called their language and ethnicity.

    Do you respect these authors? And do you respect their own statements?

  8. #268
    Senior Member lopatka's Avatar
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    Why are you talking about the Bulgar language at all? As you yourself said, it has nothing to do with nowadays Bulgarian language which was naturally created by the fusion of all the tribes and peoples inhabiting the territories of today's Bulgaria - Thracians, Slavs, Bulgars, Greeks, Cumans, Tatars, Turks, and who else not. A Bulgarian is a person that comes from nowadays Bulgaria and who's often a mixture of all of these peoples, while a Bulgar is a person that came from Old Great Bulgaria that doesn't exist anymore.

    Such people as the Bulgars made their first Balkan state guess where? -> In Macedonia:
    "The Miracles of St Demetrius states that, circa 680 AD, Kuber had a fallng out with the Avar khagan, and after repelling an Avar attack, led his followers of around 70,000 people,[4] from Srem and to Macedonia. The Byzantines initially called his people Sermisianoi (after their former settlement - Sirmium), and later the Keramisians (after their new place: the Keramissian plain in Greater Macedonia).
    In Macedonia, they had contacts and possibly mixed with the Dragovites - a Slavic tribe in the region.[2][3] Some of his people wanted to disperse to their respective various homelands. Since they were Christians, they were probably once imperial subjects that were captured by the Avars. Kuber asked the Byzantine Emperor Constantine IV to not allow the dispersal of his people, fearing that his power will decline.[citation needed] Rebuffed by the Emperor, he resolved to attack Thessaloniki, but failed. He probably made a few other sporadic attacks on the Byzantines. Professor Vasil Zlatarski, a Bulgarian scholar, suggests that Kuber was the ‘unnamed son’ of Great Kubrat. Certainly, being a prominent prince would explain why the Avars gave him rule, and his appearance in 670 chronologically fits the downfall of Old Bulgaria. He also suggests that Kuber's people represented a second Balkan Bulgar ‘state’ in Macedonia, parallel to that of his brother's Asparukh realm in the north-eastern Balkans. Whether he had established a state of sorts or not, nothing is mentioned of Kuber after the 680s,[2] but in the beginning of the 8th century Asparukh's son, Tervel, is said to have cooperated with "his uncles" from Macedonia.[5] His people were probably absorbed into the Slavs living in the area, well before Khan Presian expanded his Bulgarian Empire into Macedonia in the early 800s.[6]
    .The prominent archaeologist from Republic of Macedonia Ivan Mikulčić revealed the presence not only of the Kuber group, but an entire Bulgar archaeological culture throughout Macedonia and eastern Albania [7]. He describes the traces of Bulgars in this region, which consist of typical fortresses, burials, various products of metallurgy and pottery (including treasure with supposed Bulgar origin or ownership), lead seals, minted from Kuber, amulets, etc. However, part of this could actually represent traces of Avar presence. They are known to have raided as far south as Macedonia, and the material culture of the Avars was very similar to the Bulgars.[2]"

    Btw, my great-grand-father's family also came from Macedonia, never heard anyone from my dad's side identify as Macedonian :]

    *Byzantium called all peoples who were not a part of the empire Barbarians. Vulgar, which comes from the Latin Vulgus means common folk, crowd, gathering of people. ;]
    Last edited by lopatka; 04-15-2010 at 11:05 AM.
    Ungir kallar, kátir kallar, gangiđ upp á gólv dansiđ lystilig!

  9. #269
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopatka View Post
    Why are you talking about the Bulgar language at all? As you yourself said, it has nothing to do with nowadays Bulgarian language which was naturally created by the fusion of all the tribes and peoples inhabiting the territories of today's Bulgaria - Thracians, Slavs, Bulgars, Greeks, Cumans, Tatars, Turks, and who else not.
    1. Why are you calling your CURRENT language "Bulgarian" if it has nothing to do with the original turkic-mongol Bulgarian/s, and the language originated in Macedonia from Macedonians?

    2. The version of the Macedonian language that you speak has nothing to do with any "fusion" of turkic languages of the peoples you mentioned.

    Think about how the term "Bulgarian" was forced down your throats per the description of your renesanse man and founder, Father Paisii:

    "...Някой си Маврубир, латинец, превел от гръцки една кратка история за българските царе,... Самият този Маврубир е написал: "Така казват гърците... И така, който народ и да чете тия книги, те изобщо се наричат словенски. Но гърците, понеже знаели отначало, казват и досега български книги, а не иначе."

    Paisii equates the term "Bulgarian" with "Slav". There is nothing there about the ethnogenesis of the real Bulgarians (Asparuh, Kubat, Omurtag,etc.). It is the Greeks that have used that insulting term to refer to any non-Greeks. After all, Paisii wrote his book not as a national expression of the people; he himself acknowledges they were ahsamed to call themselves Bulgarian.


    A Bulgarian is a person that comes from nowadays Bulgaria and who's often a mixture of all of these peoples[/b], while a Bulgar is a person that came from Old Great Bulgaria that doesn't exist anymore.
    Well, a Macedonian is not a mixture of these peoples and also has nothing to do with the Bulgars. Neither the historical sources, nor the genes can lie:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract


    Such people as the Bulgars made their first Balkan state guess where? -> In Macedonia:
    A small number of these turkic Bulgars, on the orders of the Avar emperor, led Macedonians ("Sermesiani") back to thetir homes after a forced relocation north.

    The Bulgar leader, Khan Kuber, was accepted by the local Macedonians (Dragouvites) but was soon thereafter kicked out of Macedonia to tioday's Albania where several of his artefacts were located.

    That is it! One brief excursion by a Bulgarian and his horde to Macedonia in its 2500-year history. Bulgarians have a zero (0) contribution in the Macedonian ethnogenesis.

  10. #270
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    Milka, as I said earlier in this thread, you are an ethnic Macedonian (since you identify yourself as such) and you have the right to declare yourself according to your feelings. But please, do allow people such as Kiril Peychinovich, Yoakim Karchovski, Yordan Hadzhikonstantinov-Dzhinot, Rayko Zhinzifov, the Miladinovi brothers, etc., to also have the right to be what they declared themselves and their language - Bulgarian. Please, have a look at the above documents and citations from these prominent persons born in Macedonia.

    As to your other assumptions mentioned here, let's have in mind that, for example, Russians also have a name that is not a Slavic one - the term "Russian" comes from one of the Viking tribes - the varyagi. But this does not make Russians a non-Slavic nation, right?

  11. #271
    Moonderator panselinos's Avatar
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    Guys, this is slightly off the direction of this thread. Please stay within the confines of the topic. Thank you.
    It's funnier in Enochian

  12. #272
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panselinos View Post
    Guys, this is slightly off the direction of this thread. Please stay within the confines of the topic. Thank you.
    It is very much off the direction of the thread. The thread is: "Learning Macedonain Language".

    So why is the above individual allowed to spam the thread with Bulgarian nationalistic nonsense (he repeats again the same untruths which I had corrected earlier)?!

  13. #273
    Moonderator panselinos's Avatar
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    Do we really have to continue with all this irrelevant, petty bickering? I think not. Enough is enough.
    Thank you both for being smarter.

    P.S. A great musician once said, "Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting". Shake hands and drink beer instead.
    It's funnier in Enochian

  14. #274
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    "We" don't have to continue because I was not involved in petty bickering, and relativizing somebody's bickering neither helps nor does justice.

    However the person above should be sanctioned if he continues with off topic discussions. His national identity problems are only his.

    My last post on the issue. Indeed, let us learn Macedonian.
    Last edited by Milka; 05-21-2010 at 05:41 PM.

  15. #275
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milka View Post
    "We" don't have to continue because I was not involved in petty bickering, and relativizing somebody's bickering neither helps nor does justice.

    However the person above should be sanctioned if he continues with off topic discussions. His national identity problems are only his.

    My last post on the issue. Indeed, let us learn Macedonian.

    Well said Milka!
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
    white aureole are knitting the angels for you
    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
    ***TOŠE FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS***

  16. #276
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    how do you say I WANNA BE WITH YOU in macedonian????

  17. #277
    Senior Member Milka's Avatar
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    You say: Sakam da bidam so tebe OR Sakam da sum so tebe.

    Give us the context though.

  18. #278
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    Здраво на сите. Јас сум Марија и јас сакам да ви помогнам да научите Македонски.
    Hello everybody. I'm Maria and I want to help you learn Macedonian.

  19. #279
    Junior Member imNES's Avatar
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    Default Hi...

    my background is macedonian.... and unfortunately i have no idea how to speak it.

    I would love if someone could give me some help on how to begin to learn the language.

    please and thank you.

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