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  1. #101
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    No worries lopatka, you didn't offend no one, I don't consider that as an offend if you ask me All languages like I said that belong to same group of languages (there are many groups, but won't go into grammar too muchare with similar roots, but of course it is nonsensical to consider all of them as same.
    Or, I would really consider Macedonian same with Serbian as I understand it perfectly In my case, my Bulgarian is not on that level, I really can't translate Bulgarian songs so good, I only managed to translate one so far with some difficulties because there are many words I don't understand and also some letters are different, while with Serbian I have no problems at all
    We are just discussing and everyone can say its own opinion and feelings, as long as we keep the respect between each other that is all that matters
    Hope you all agree

    Best wishes, xxx
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
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    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
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  2. #102
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    гледам овде многу мнениња за jазици
    но имам инаку прашањеможате да кажете ме про "падежи" в македонски jазик бидеjки не можам да разумем тоа
    требам да знам толку многу

  3. #103
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    thanks pthalo lydia & lopatka - yes, for just letting each one express what we wanted to express still respecting each other. that's the most important. i hope that eventually with more understanding more people can be friends over these political boundaries. i just think we can stand up and be assertive when it's a question of cultural identity.

    now i really want to let everyone get back to 'ucenjevo' that's great!

    - just as a final note: 'da si krivya dushata' is a good example that i might sort of guess the meaning from context and similarity but the grammatical structure and the verb declension and the russian letter 'ya' would not at all be the same in macedonian. totally unlike the little bit of bulgarian i've seen, when we say 'jas'... verb ending is always 'am or 'av or 'ov. and the basic word conjunction 'that' is 'deka'. it's 'da' in serbian (which i could say i sort of 'understand' too even not having grown up next to). not even a linguist, just a basic observation.

    ok - now i'm little one has her question that i'll let the more linguistic lydia etc to answer.

    pozeluvam i na site se najdobro!

  4. #104
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    (sorry, just one more note on the topic and then please get back to language and i'll get back to school)...
    i was just thinking it over and talking more about this language identity issue, that obviously has become politically complicated... i still just felt soo strange that something is not right, so what else i wanted to say is this:

    however macedonia wants to define their national language and identity - it is NOT up to bulgaria! it should not be subject to bulgarian approval or agreement or JUDGMENT. that is exactly what has been so bizarre to me! - that another person who doesn't really know you would take the authority to tell you your own identity! should sweden tell denmark that they speak swedish? or should germany tell holland that they speak german?

    when china conquered the tibetan nation - and when turkey took control of the kurdish nation, both those countries made an official propaganda myth that tibetans are actually chinese and kurds are actually turks. the present-day republic of macedonia is (thank god) not subjected to bulgaria. i looked up our history and it seems this is where the political issue comes from.

    by saying there is no macedonian language the bulgarian government avoids having to recognize (like gr) that they have an ethnic and linguistic minority - that exists in pirin macedonia because that is the territory that bulgaria took in 1913. and by the way, there are also holidays in macedonia celebrating the fact that in the various periods of occupation, bulgaria never took over completely.

    i totally don't feel anger towards gr or bulgaria for that. wars happen and borders change. that's fine. but it just so WEIRD when i hear bulgarians acting like they don't see that there is a macedonian language - as if THE WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD is in on some conspiracy formulated by Broz Tito - and of the WHOLE WORLD that can look and see a macedonian language, ONLY bulgaria is a victim if macedonian should be recognized.

    it's not a matter of opinion:
    tibetan people & language exist. they are not chinese.
    kurdish people & language exist. they are not turks.
    and macedonian people & language exist. they are not bulgarians.

    in the south of the united states, there are a lot of mexican people. and that's all fine. the government and the history officially acknowledge that there was a war with mexico who lost, and so there will be no future wars over the territory but the mexican people have a right to speak their language and be 'as mexican' as they want to be.

    peace and mutual respect and understanding is my wish for the whole world!
    that's all! peace peace peace.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    I must say sizr-sistr is absolutely CORRECT about every detail that was mentioned, that I really don't know what else to add;-) Excellent explanation and all of that reality and truth! I support every word and her opinion and also congratulations from my side for the knowledge

    But, as it was asked and don't like to make this forum with political note, I told my opinion in private and I think it is time for us to continue with the questions regarding the Macedonian language

    Марија, по однос на твоето прашање, можеш да воздивниш, бидејки нашиот јазик нема падежи. Тоа е тоа што најмногу ми се допаѓа, но од друга страна ги прави јазиците со падежи потешки за учење, иако не до тој степен, но сепак кога учиме друг јазик се среќаваме за прв пат со истите Ќе го напишам другово на англиски, бидејќи може останатите да не разберат, а сакаат да го знаат истото.

    So, the Macedonian language had complex case system that was inherited from the proto-language and the old Slavic one, but after a time it was lost (only the vocative form has left) Therefore, the Macedonian language shows some special, in some cases, unique characteristics due to its central position in the Balkans.

    Anyway we have some specific way to show the cases without using any case, mean it is also about grammar way of forming the sentences.

    For instance, as a suitable forms of the dative case there are the long and short pronominal forms for the indirect object (mene mi, tebe ti, nemu mu, nejze i, nam ni, vam vi i nim im).

    The most common mark for the indirect object in the Macedonian language is the preposition "na".

    Examples: "I go dadov molivot na Ana"- "I gave the pencil to Ana"

    As well the dative forms we mentioned also show belonging, something which goes as a characteristic for the genitive case.

    Example: Majka mi (mojata majka)- my mother

    I don't know if it is little bit more clear now, as I know grammar gives headaches sometimes We will go step by step, but no worries, like I said, there are not much problems with the cases since they don't exist in that way

    Greetings, xxx
    Last edited by Lydia_the angel; 01-26-2009 at 07:34 AM.
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
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    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
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  6. #106
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    ооо Лидиjа фала,знам што немате падежи во jазик но не верував
    така разумев про dative formsи гледам тоа е не тешко
    ке учам и ако имам прашање за падежи тоа ке прашувам
    ке можеш да зборуваш ме за Adjective
    if i want to say gym hall,bookcase and etc.i should use "за" in these forms like "шкаф за книги"??
    and one more question,tell me about word "weather" cause it can be usin' like "time" and like "weather" so what's difference between them??
    sorry for askin' many question

  7. #107
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    No problem Maria, you are welcome and no worries, I will come here to explain you and help you all as much as I can
    Regarding your question, in the cases you mentioned you will have to use "za"(for) because there aren't one-word adjectives for those examples.
    So only in such instances you will use "za" like for gym hall- (sala za gimnastika), but again these are not considered as adjectives actually.
    It is more like a noun explained with a preposition and another noun, so not a real adjective.

    The adjectives get the gender and the number of the noun they are going with. So in Macedonian there are 3 genders and 2 numbers. Therefore the adjective gets them from the noun, unlike in English. So it will be more difficult here, I mean, English is easier about this issue

    Examples:

    Beautiful city- ubav grad, beautiful house- ubava kukja, beautiful village- ubavo selo, beautiful mountains- ubavi planini;
    lovely guy- prekrasen decko, lovely woman- prekrasna zena, lovely lake- prekrasno ezero, lovely streets-ubavi ulici etc etc.
    The plural is formed on the same way for the 3 genders.

    1.ubav------ubavi
    2.ubava-----ubavi
    3.ubavo-----ubavi


    There are also so called possessive pronominal adjectives that correspond to the English possessives "my", "your" etc. In Macedonian they are called adjectives because like the other of this kind they agree in number and gender with the noun they modify. This differs from English in which the possessive forms are invariant.

    Examples:

    My chair- Mojot stol; My book- Mojata kniga; My dog- Moeto kuce
    My chairs- Moite stolovi; My books- Moite knigi; My dogs- Moite kucinja

    In other words, the specific form of the possessive adjective in Macedonian is determined by the noun that is possessed.

    Here's one small exercise I found for you to practice the adjectives and their meaning

    http://www.utoronto.ca/slavic/macedo...pridavki01.htm

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by Lydia_the angel; 01-27-2009 at 03:46 PM.
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    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
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  8. #108
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    Thanks Lydia,seems i got it
    but that adjectives get the gender and the number of the noun its the same like in Russian
    and thanks for exersise thats great
    so i think soon ill have more questions but who knows
    Macedonian is great

  9. #109
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    No problem Maria Good that you got the point and if you need something else I hope I'll be able to help you in future
    And happy that you are learning Macedonian passionately and that you like it

    Take care, xxx
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
    white aureole are knitting the angels for you
    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
    ***TOŠE FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS***

  10. #110
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    thanks Lydia for helpin
    Macedonian isnt so hard like it seems in first time
    just it needs time to know it better

  11. #111
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    Lydia i need ur help tell me about aorist and in macedonian
    is it like the past time or how?

  12. #112
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    I will write in English so that others may understand as well, hope it is ok
    (I would write in Macedonian, but I don't know if the rest will get the point)

    Aorist

    The aorist, called in Macedonian either aorist or minato opredeleno svršeno vreme (минато определено свршено време-past definite complete tense) is a form which refers to a completed action in the past tense.
    It most often corresponds to the simple past tense in English.

    Examples: I read the book (Ја прочитав книгата); I wrote the letter (Го напишав писмото); I ate my supper (Ја изедов вечерата) etc.
    In contemporary standard Macedonian, the aorist is formed almost exclusively from perfective verbs.

    While all verbs in the aorist (except sum-сум) take the same endings, there are complexities in the aorist stem vowel and possible consonant alternations.

    All verbs (except sum-сум) take the following endings in the aorist:

    Singular

    1.jas- v
    2. ti- #
    3. toj/taa/toa - #

    Plural

    1. nie- vme
    2. vie- vte
    3. tie- a


    # this sign means there are no endings after the stem vowel

    Example with the verb напиша

    Еднина

    1. jас напишав
    2. ти напиша
    3. тој/таа/тоа напиша

    Множина

    1. ние напишавме
    2. вие напишавте
    3. тие напишаа

    Поздрав!
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
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    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
    ***TOŠE FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS***

  13. #113
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    Фала Лидиjа,разумев
    но посакувам да пише тоа по македонски

  14. #114
    Member Losha's Avatar
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    Hello

    I want to know a meaning of a word ..
    I've heard it almost all songs I've listened.I don't have a Macedonian dictionary. Could you tell me what does "vecherva" mean?
    By the way Macedonian is really interesting! I love it so much!
    Thank you and the forum!..

  15. #115
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Losha View Post
    Hello : D

    I want to know a meaning of a word ..
    I've heard it almost all songs I've listened.I don't have a Macedonian dictionary. Could you tell me what does "vecherva" mean?:-)
    By the way Macedonian is really interesting! I love it so much!
    Thank you and the forum!..: D
    Hello Losha from here as well I'm glad you joined us and that you also love the Macedonian language and our forum аt all We are always happy when we are helpful Regarding your question, the word "vecherva" (вечерва) means tonight so you're right about this word being in many songs, I guess because it is a romantic one

    Марија, мило ми е што разбираш Инаку пишувам на македонски за прашањата шти ги имаш во однос на граматиката, бидејќи останатите можно е да не разбираат македонски толку добро, мислам и дека еднаш кога разговаравме побараа да преведам на англиски, па затоа во интерес на сите, граматичките правила ги пишувам на англиски:-)
    А вака ние можеме да си комуницираме на македонски и ти можеш да си пишуваш на истиот, а јас еве кога не е нешто посебно важно ќе ти враќам на македонски Се надевам нема да е проблем:-)

    Поздрав за сите!
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
    white aureole are knitting the angels for you
    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
    ***TOŠE FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS***

  16. #116
    Senior Member i'm little one's Avatar
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    Лидиjа надевам што другите ке учат и разумеат македонски како jас и ти но граматика можа е тежок понекогаш,знам тоа
    сега не можам да замислувам моjот живот без македонски jазик
    возможно во бивши жизни jас бев македонка
    Бакнежи од мене за тебе Лидиjа

  17. #117
    Member Losha's Avatar
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    Hey Lydia thank you very much ! I always wonder that word! Mnogo blogodaram!

  18. #118
    Senior Member Bazilija's Avatar
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    Dobar den na site!
    Ve čitam i učam pomalku. Imam mngou problemi so zamjenici i prilozi ama ne se grizam poradi toga, ke bide podobro. Jas go imam edno prašanje vo vrska so edna stara pesna od Egejska Makedonija (mislam deka e od toj kraj): ve molam za pomok na zborovi od pesna bidejki ne gi razmev vo celosta
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saksv...eature=related

    Ka mi ispadnala moma Katerina
    Niz tie nejni nejni rodni dvori

    Ta mi rastresala nejna rusa kosa
    Niz taja nejna nejna ravna snaga

    Ta mi ja videlo edno ludo mlado
    ??????Katerina.....je govori

    Oj ti Katerino ti mlado mome
    Ajde elaj elaj elaj ti pri mene

    Jas ka da ti mazam taja rusa kosa
    Jas ka da ti kršam taja ravna snaga

    Ako može nekoj da mi go popravi tekstot

    Golem pozdrav drugari
    temno e, tajno moja, a vo dusa svetat feneri

  19. #119
    Senior Member Lydia_the angel's Avatar
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    Марија, и јас се надевам дека ќе го постигнеме тоа со лекциите малку по малку А воопшто не се сомневам дека си била Македонка во претходниот живот, и ти и Драгица, бидејќи и двете сте љубителки на македонскиот јазик и држава, ако не грешам.:па можно е тоа да е една од причините

    Драгица, не се грижи за заменките и прилозите, не се толку тешки, ќе ги научиш бидејќи имаш желба, а тоа е доста важно;-) Гледаш колку убаво пишуваш на македонски, со Марија двете напреднувате:-) Инаку и јас мислам дека песната е од регионот на Егејска Македонија, и е на Воденски дијалект. Имав мака да слушнам што пеат на тие делови, каде што и ти не си сигурна, па ја преслушав неколку пати, но некако неразбирливо се слуша, а музиката е посилна. Единствено го слушнав овој дел. (I na Katerina...), a наместо "младо" моме викаат "малој" моме Патем, групата што изведува вакви песни се викаат Воденки Ако случајно разберам што пеат после тоа -"и на Катерина....говори", ќе те известам во најскоро време

    Losha Молам;-) you are welcome, it's always a pleasure

    Поздрав до сите:-)
    Last edited by Lydia_the angel; 02-08-2009 at 12:28 PM.
    The icon lamp has brighten the sky
    white aureole are knitting the angels for you
    your star extinguished, as soon as I found you, you left
    ***TOŠE FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS***

  20. #120
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    Smile translations for Google

    hi people! on a related note: a useful language tool for everyone that seems to be annoyingly unavailable is Google search function for Macedonian. it appears to be 99% done though:
    http://www.google.com/transconsole/giyl/check/status
    anyone who wants to and who knows computer terminology in Macedonian could be helpful and complete the translation list, so then supposedly it's easier to search for Macedonian pages through Google!
    Dobra rabota! Ajde ~

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