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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzina772000 View Post
    Just an addition to the above post of Lady A.

    The nouns that come from a foreign language also have lo-gli as an article, for example

    lo sport - gli sport

    P.S. Lady A if I anticipated something tell me and I will delete the post.
    Thank you for your post.

    But the article is lo-gli in this case because the word starts with "esse impura", not because it comes from a different language. Other words coming from foreign languages follow the general rules of the article.

    What it was to be said here, is that these words keep the same form at singular or plural: il test - i test, la foto - le foto.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    An exception: some words that entered Italian from another language (like Greek) take a different article unlike the given rule.

    E.g.: clima: il clima, not la clima

    problema: il problema

    panorama: il panorama

    or....

    tesi: la tesi, not il tesi

    etc

    Or

  3. #23
    Senior Member tzina772000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_A View Post
    Thank you for your post.

    But the article is lo-gli in this case because the word starts with "esse impura", not because it comes from a different language. Other words coming from foreign languages follow the general rules of the article.

    What it was to be said here, is that these words keep the same form at singular or plural: il test - i test, la foto - le foto.
    I am sorry, but I was told that when I did Italian, maybe it was a quick rule to remember the articles (without explaining much of course).
    Koukla your post has the same answer.

  4. #24
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    You have nothing to be sorry about, I just wanted to explain the use of the article in that case

  5. #25
    Senior Member citlalli's Avatar
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    Buona sera tutti!

    I also was taught that rule like Lady A (ie because of the "esse impura"), but I think that at the end what matters is that the guys learning italian here know how to identify when to use "lo" instead of "il"

    see yaaaaa....
    “If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember.” ― Terry Pratchett.

  6. #26
    Senior Member citlalli's Avatar
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    Oh, I forgot to say... Lady A you're doing a great job here, and I'm sure you're making happy many people with all the time and effort you're investing in this. Keep it up!
    “If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember.” ― Terry Pratchett.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tzina772000 View Post
    Koukla your post has the same answer.

    I am a little lost but I didnot mention the plural forms. (if thats what u meant) I said the general rule is broken when some foreign words enter. I dunno if it's an exception for all foreign words.

    The rule says the word takes the article "la" if it ends with -a, but panorama, etc takes "il". And vice versa

    Btw as far as I remember, the article "lo" of the leter "s" is for the words that start with S + consonant and ends with a vowel. (Like lo specchio) Otherwise it is "il" (il sermone, il sandalo)

  8. #28
    Senior Member citlalli's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's exactly what "esse impura" is: s+consonant (sp, st)... as far as I know the vowel at the end has nothing to do with this... but I may be wrong coz I never bothered too much with the grammar rules due to the similarity between italian and my mother tongue... same goes for "la mano", "il panorama", etc... no idea about the rules
    “If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember.” ― Terry Pratchett.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    I guess the vowel makes it lo, but after all most words end with vowel in Italian. I just checked some words in the dictionary, I guess it has to be this rule. As I am a teacher myself, I always remember rules when learning a lang, cant escape from it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koukla View Post
    I guess the vowel makes it lo, but after all most words end with vowel in Italian. I just checked some words in the dictionary, I guess it has to be this rule. As I am a teacher myself, I always remember rules when learning a lang, cant escape from it.
    Which vowel makes it lo?

    I don't understand why you are twisting it and making it more complicated than it is.

    The rule is very clear: foreign or not, masculine words starting with esse impura have the lo aricle.
    The others, foriegn or not, starting with simple "S" have the il article.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    Are you ok? I am just saying what I was taught.

    S + consonant + vowel: lo (lo specchio)

    Others take il I'd said.

    What's this nerve I didnot get....

  12. #32
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    THE ADJECTIVE - L'AGGETTIVO


    There are two tpes of adjectives in Italian; it must be said here that the gender of the adjective is the gender of the noun/pronoun it determines.

    - with double form : one for masculine and one for feminine:

    alto (masc) - alta (fem) - tall
    piccolo (masc) - piccola (fem) - small
    magro (masc) - magra (fem) - thin

    So we'll say:
    il ragazzo alto - the tall boy
    la ragazza alta - the tall girl


    - with only one form: used for both masculine and feminine

    interessante (masc+fem) - interesting
    allettante (masc+fem) - alluring, attractive

    So we'll say:
    il libro interessante (masc) - the interesting book
    la rivista interessante (fem) - the interesting magazine

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koukla View Post
    Are you ok? I am just saying what I was taught.

    S + consonant + vowel: lo (lo specchio)

    Others take il I'd said.

    What's this nerve I didnot get....
    First of all, try and read the posts before you.
    Secondly, the vowel after the consonant is not important and it doesn't make any rule.
    In the third place, there is no need to get nervous, we are all here for the people wanting to learn Italian, we do them no favor if we argue over things that were already said.

  14. #34
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    Dear, you are the one with arguing tone, I did read the posts. I tried to explain with how I was taught. Pls leave this attitude, it's not helping. Or simply ignore my posts.

  15. #35
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    Make sure you were taught right first.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    make sure you dont teach with this attitude in real life

  17. #37
    Senior Member tzina772000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_A View Post
    The rule is very clear: foreign or not, masculine words starting with esse impura have the lo aricle.
    The others, foriegn or not, starting with simple "S" have the il article.
    She/ he summarizes practically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koukla View Post
    I guess the vowel makes it lo, but after all most words end with vowel in Italian.
    you mean the s+consonant+vowel rule makes a noun get the lo article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koukla View Post
    I just checked some words in the dictionary, I guess it has to be this rule. As I am a teacher myself, I always remember rules when learning a lang, cant escape from it.
    which rule koukla has to be the one??? The s+consonant or the s+consonant+ vowel.
    The way you pone the whole thing I think that Lady_A understood that you didn't understood the rule she/he said. And trying to make you understand in another way, practically summarizing, he/she tryied to understand if you wanted more examples to grasp the whole thing. You didn't make quite clear if you accept the s+consonant rule as correct or not.


    And I think some comments from both parts are quite personal, don't you?And this is not the reason of this thread

  18. #38
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    Actually I didnt comment on anyone's post. Whatever you say guys.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Lyssa's Avatar
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    Hi I've got a question!
    I just started to learn some italian with a book and a friend, now there's a point where my book and my friend disagree XD

    The book says => you use "tuo figlio" when it's singular but " I tuoi figli" on plural, is this right?? Or is it "IL tuo figlio" on singular too?

  20. #40
    Senior Member Koukla's Avatar
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    when it's relatives, you don't need to use the articles.

    Mio marito (my husband, not il mio marito)

    Or tua madre

    but when it is words like la mamma, you need to say la tua mamma or with suffixes like -ino: il tuo fratellino (but tuo fratello)

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