Polish lesson & grammar

alveopalatals - sz, cz, ż, rz, dż

palatals - ś, ć, ź, dź (everything with the little line*)

Dz - just regular d+z pronounced together.


*There are two important things about these consonants:

1) when they stand before i which constitutes a separate syllable, the little line becomes needless, so e.g. ścinać ('to cut', 2 syllables: ści-nać) is read *[śćinać]; dziwny ('strange') is read *[dźiwny] etc.

2) when they stand before other vowels, instead of the little line we write an i between them, e.g. ciasto ('cake') is read *[ćasto], Kasia ('Kate') is read *[Kaśa], dziura ('hole') is read *[dźura] etc.

So, when a Pole sees a "si/ci/zi/dzi" in a word, he/she pronounces it as [śi/ći/źi/dźi], with exception of some foreign words like e.g. sigma (read [sigma], not [śigma]).

Originally Posted by Gustaw

Hey, I've met Hungarians, as well as one Czech girl, who studied Polish philology, so it's doable! :P

Well, Hungarians should be familiar with pronouncing unpronouncable stuff

Could you give us some basic words and phrases?

I forgot to mention that i between a consonant and a vowel is most often only the marking of the consonant's softness - if you can hear an i there at all, it's so short it doesn't constitute a separate syllable, e.g. wiara ('faith', 2 syllables: wia-ra) should be read as [w'ara], with a soft v. The difference between soft and hard consonants is crucial, e.g. pasek [pasek] 'belt' - piasek [p'asek] 'sand'.

* * *

A very important thing is also that consonants in certain positions become devoiced in speech (e.g. -d becomes -t, -g>-k, -ż>-sz, -dż>-cz etc.). It happens mostly at the ends of words, or also within a word, under the effect of other, voiceless, consonant. Let's have a few examples:

Bóg ('God') - read as [buk]
(buk ('beech') - read as... [buk] as well; )

wóz ('cart') - read as [wus] (remember, w is always the English v!)

nóż ('knife') - read as [nusz]

cud ('miracle') - read as [cut] (remember, c is like ts!)

trzy ('three') - read as [tszy] or even [czszy] (this is also permitted)

kwiat ('flower') - read as [kf'at] (remember, the i here is just the marker of w's softness).

Oh, just one more thing, as Lt. Columbo used to say!

The accent is (almost always) on the next to the last syllable.

Originally Posted by Mimi0920

Could you give us some basic words and phrases?

Sure! Let's start with the goodmornings and stuff:

Good news: "good morning" and "good afternoon" in Polish are just one phrase: Dzień dobry! ('Good day!') - read: [dźeń dobry]

'Goodbye!' - Do widzenia! (literally: 'to seeing', read: [do widzeńa])

'Good night!' - Dobranoc! (remember, c is always ts...)

'Hi!/Bye!' (fam.)! - Cześć! (interesting: literally: 'reverence, homage')

'Please' - Proszę (read: [prosze]; remember, ę at the end is always e)

'Thank you!' - Dziękuję (read: [dźękuje])

'Sorry/Excuse me' - Przepraszam (read: [pszepraszam])

Numbers 1-10:

1 - jeden (when counting 1, 2, 3..., you can also use raz here)
2 - dwa (read with v!)
3 - trzy (read [tszy])
4 - cztery
5 - pięć (read [p'eńć], here the ę becomes eń in speech)
6 - sześć
7 - siedem (read [śedem])
8 - osiem (read [ośem])
9 - dziewięć (read [dźew'eńć])
10 - dziesięć (read [dźeśeńć])

Dziękuję

Oh, so the numbers are similar to Russian! Since they're both Slavic, that's easier in Russian you can also count Raz (time), dva, tri

Also, the goodbye is a bit like an inverse of Dosvidanya!

Is there a rule on syllable stress in Polish, or is it like Russian and Ro and has no set rules to follow, besides memorisation? you can compare it to pronunciations in another language, since English hardly has equivalents. I'll probably understand what you mean

Wow, how many times have I edited this post now? LOL ^^

What is the pronunciation of ę, by the way? I've always wondered...

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

Oh, so the numbers are similar to Russian! Since they're both Slavic, that's easier; in Russian you can also count Raz (time), dva, tri

Also, the goodbye is a bit like an inverse of Dosvidanya!

Yep, these basic words are really very, very similar, which is quite understandable. With Czechs and Slovaks we can talk without any difficulties, each one in his own language, and understand each other. This is really nice when on vacation e.g. in Slovakia. Russians aren't Western Slavs, but if one tries to speak slowly and use simple words, we'll also understand each other. That's how it is to be a Big Slavic Family.

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

Is there a rule on syllable stress in Polish, or is it like Russian and Ro and has no set rules to follow, besides memorisation? you can compare it to pronunciations in another language, since English hardly has equivalents. I'll probably understand what you mean

I think one of the few easy things about Polish is that the accent is quite simple - in falls on the penultimate syllable, say, 97% of times. The remaining 3% are:

1) certain words of foreign origin, e.g. muzyka [MU-zy-ka], matematyka [ma-te-MA-ty-ka], repertuar [re-PER-tu-ar], etc.;

2) every form of the past tense in 1pl or 2pl, e.g. zrobiliśmy ('we did') [zro-BI-liś-my], powiedzieliście ('you [pl] said') [po-wie-DZIE-liś-cie] - always on the 3rd syllable from the end;

3) almost every form of the conditional; the rule here is to treat the -by... ending like a separate word and put the accent regularly on the penultimate syllable of the rest, e.g. zrobiłby ('he would do') [ZRO-bił + by], zrobilibyśmy ('we would do') [zro-BI-li + byśmy], zrobiłbym ('I would do') [ZRO-bił + bym) etc.

The reason for all of this is of course history of the language (e.g. the past tense was long ago compound: zrobiliście < zrobili + jeście).

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

What is the pronunciation of ę, by the way? I've always wondered...

Well, it's quite complicated... Look here:

• na końcu wyrazów ę wymawiamy jako ustne e lub lekko zaznaczając jego nosowość; wyraźna wymowa nosowego ę w tej pozycji odbierana jest jako pretensjonalna i przesadna i kwalifikuje się ją jako błąd językowy: czuję [czuje], piszę [p’isze], znamię [znam’ie]; por. -> hiperpoprawność;
• wyraźnie nosowo wymawiamy ę przed spółgłoskami szczelinowymi (f, w, s, z, sz, ż, ś, ź, ch): węszyć [węszyć], wężyk [wężyk], węch [węch];
• przed p, b, p’, b’ głoskę ę wymawiamy jako em: głęboki [głembok’i], sęp [semp];
• przed t, d, c, dz, cz, dż samogłoskę ę wymawiamy jako en: mętny [mentny], wędlina [wendl’ina]; wyjątkiem są tu liczebniki piętnaście, piętnasty i dziewiętnaście, dziewiętnasty, w których ę wymawiamy jak e – [p’etnasty] i in.;
• przed l i ł wymawiamy ę jak ustne e: wzięli [wźel’i], przyjęła [pszyjeła];
• przed k, g, k’, g’ samogłoskę ę wymawiamy jako grupę en: dźwięk [dźw’ienk], gęgać [gengać].

But let's simplify it:

1) at the end of a word PLUS before L and Ł PLUS in four numerals: piętnaście/piętnasty (15/15th) and dziewiętnaście/dziewiętnasty, (19/19th) it's just regular e (at the end of a word one can make it slightly nasal, if he really wants to): dziękuję, kąpię się ('I am taking a bath'), wzięli ('they took') - pronounced [wźeli], piętnaście [pietnaśće];

2) in other positions it's either a normal nasal e (e.g. węże 'snakes'), or en (e.g. tęcza [tencza] 'rainbow'), or em (e.g. głęboki [głemboki] 'deep') - just pick up whichever is simplier! It's all for the speaker's comfort, although I know it's hard to believe at the moment.

Did I forget to mention that many, many Poles put the accent in the wrong place, or pronounce the ę wrong? It's a language you (some people) speak for 60 years and still commit mistakes every day.

1. You sure y is similar to ă, and not â/î? The Romanian ^ is almost identical to Russian ы, and identical in Moldovan-Ro

Is the ł like a Romanian/Russian u, or an ă, or English uh? or French euh?

How would you pronounce the combination sc in Polish, separately or as one sound? I know it differs in each language

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

1. You sure y is similar to ă, and not â/î? The Romanian ^ is almost identical to Russian ы, and identical in Moldovan-Ro

To be exact, it's neither, but yeah, the Russian ы is similar to y. I quote: "It is unrounded (like i, e, a and unlike o, u), high (like i, u and unlike e, a, o) and central (like a and unlike front i, e and back u, o). I imagine it is very hard to be imitated correctly, especially when you have never heard it.

None of such languages like English, French, German, Spanish, Italian has a similar sound. Turkish, Japanese, Ukrainian and especially Russian have a vowel resembling the Polish y except it is more back there. When you are speaking i, the back of your tongue is going to the point A. When you are speaking u, it is going to the point B. And when you are speaking y, it should be going to the point C that lies between A and B."

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

Is the ł like a Romanian/Russian u, or an ă, or English uh? or French euh?

It's just a short (Romanian/Russian...) u. E.g. łapa 'paw' [uapa], łyżka 'spoon' [uyszka].

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

How would you pronounce the combination sc in Polish, separately or as one sound? I know it differs in each language

Separately.

Ok, so I think I know how to elaborate on the explanation of some of those letters, please let me know if you need help!

The ń is like a Spanish ñ or Russian Nь
the ą is like a French "an" or "en"
the h/ch is like Spanish j or Arabic kh
the j is like an English y in yes


You roll R's, right?

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

the ą is like a French "an" or "en"

To be exact, it's a (Polish) o followed immediately by a short nasal (Polish) u = [oũ]; if we try to compare it to French vowels, it's similar to something between French on and an. However, I think you are able to pronounce it the right way ([oũ]), cause I see you'd rather do it well.

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

You roll R's, right?

Aye.

Gustaw, the video text was beautiful. I just finished listening, and I only understood "rodzina" I see why it's called a "rustling" language!

I'm glad you liked it, I like it too.

I only understood "rodzina"

If you're comparing rodzina to the Russian родина, unfortunately they don't have the same meaning - the latter means 'fatherland', while the former - 'family'.

No, I actually meant the word "family"... I understood the part where he said "She had no family, no..." and didn't get the last word

See, I had forgotten but I once read a good book set in Poland called Rodzina, and it was the name of the main character. When I read the author's note, I found out she went to her family grave site in Poland and thought it was the grave of her great-aunt about whom she wanted to write a story, but later found out from someone Polish that it was a mass grave of her family, not just her aunt

Sorry I underestimated you!

BTW, Rodzina is a very strange family name, I've never met or heard of anybody with this name... Quite original.

Lol it was a mistake... It said "The _____ Family". The author wrote the book with the character before she figured out that it wasn't a name

Originally Posted by dragonfly93

Lol it was a mistake... It said "The _____ Family". The author wrote the book with the character before she figured out that it wasn't a name

OK, now i get it.

Here are some funny sentences!

W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie. (the most popular Polish tongue twister, from a poem called Chrząszcz ["The Cricket"])

Przyszedł Herbst z pstrągami. (a nice one: 9 consonants in a row )

Pocztmistrz z Tczewa, rotmistrz z Czchowa. (my favourite!)

Translations:

W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie.
'In Szczebrzeszyn [a Polish town] a beetle buzzes in the reed.'

Przyszedł Herbst z pstrągami.
'Herbst came with the trouts.'

Pocztmistrz z Tczewa, rotmistrz z Czchowa.
'Postmaster from Tczew, rittmeister from Czchów [both Polish towns].'

Let's learn something new:

być ('to be', present tense):

1. (ja) jestem
2. (ty) jesteś
3. (on, ona, ono) jest

1pl. (my) jesteśmy
2pl. (wy) jesteście
3pl. (oni, one) są

Note: the pronouns aren't necessary, as the form of the verb itself tells us about the person.

Grammatical genders:

In singular, Polish has three genders: masculine, feminine and neuter... I've just lied a little bit, because the masculine gender is in fact divided into three genders: masculine-personal, masculine-animate and masculine-inanimate. This is important for the declension of nouns. But for now, let's say there are only 3 genders in the singular; on means 'he', ona - 'she' and ono - 'it'.

In plural, there are only two genders: personal-masculine and non-personal-masculine. The personal-masculine gender is limited only to groups of male human beings (e.g. men, grandfathers, boys etc.) and to groups of people of both sexes (e.g. people, Americans etc.). The non-personal-masculine is for everything else , including groups of children and women (not a very feminist language, yeah ): e.g. women, children, hands, cats, fish, oaks, flowers, pencils, sciences etc.

So - personal-masculine: every group with boys/men, non-personal-masculine: groups without boys/men.