Nada Mamula interprets this song just lovely – but as always with these older songs it may sometimes be difficult to understand certain words, and sometimes also the context.
U DJUL BASTI
U djul basti, kraj simsira
sjedi jedna cura fina
Djul bere i mirise
ceka dragog i uzdise
Moj dragane, slatko lane
ubile te noci tamne
Zasto si me poljubio
pa me mladu ostavio
Ti mi moju dusu uze
ubile te moje suze
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Nada Mamula – U djul basti
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Ne znam kakva je to Djul bašta, tj koja je to biljka djul. To je možda ime mesta.
U DJUL BASTI - In the Djul Garden
U djul basti, kraj simsira
In the djul- garden, near the boxwood
sjedi jedna cura fina
a nice girl sits
Djul bere i mirise
she picks up djul-flower and smells it
ceka dragog i uzdise:
she is waiting her beloved and sighs:
Moj dragane, slatko lane
My dear, sweet fawn (or calf)
ubile te noci tamne
you've been killed by dark nights (or let the dark, dimly nights kill you! I think like a malediction)
Zasto si me poljubio
Why had you kissed me
pa me mladu ostavio
and then, while I'm young like this, left me
Ti mi moju dusu uze
you took my soul
ubile te moje suze
let my tears kill you! -
Djul is turkish word for rose.
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Yes, I wondered the same, thanks.
Pa to bi bilo djul bašta = ružičnjak -
Ruzicnjak, bas tako
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Thanks!
I hope I'm not complicating your life with these songs
Your help is appreciated!
I just have an additional question about the translation of the last line:
"Ubile te moje suze" (Let my tears kill you).
What's the structure/way of thinking here?
Why shall I not translate it with "My tears killed you"?
Hvala unapred
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It's not past time, it's curse. For you that form is probably confusing, but I really don't know to explain why we use exactly this form. Maybe Spring or Ina can
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well, yeah, a pity that spring isn't here
Originally Posted by Zahal
Thanks!
I hope I'm not complicating your life with these songs
Your help is appreciated!
I just have an additional question about the translation of the last line:
"Ubile te moje suze" (Let my tears kill you).
What's the structure/way of thinking here?
Why shall I not translate it with "My tears killed you"?
Hvala unapred
anyway, i'll try to explain it as good as i can, though i'm not completely sure either.
i don't think that this sentence is grammatically correct to begin with, it's just an expression.
the past tense would be "Ubile SU te moje suze", or even better "Moje suze su te ubile".
it's like with the popular curses "x ti jebo' y", it also doesn't mean that i has happened but that you wish that it happens.
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Thanks.
What's the name of this phenomena in your grammar?
Maybe I can look it up, and get a wider picture of it?
Or is this a part of your language that I just have to learn by heart, without any grammatical guidelines? -
phenomena ? Originally Posted by Zahal
this construction is grammatically wrong or incomplete anyway.
if you would want to pedantically stick to the rules you would say "neka te moje suze ubile" or "dabogda te moje suze ubile" (like ina said before she deleted her post)
to build the past tense you always need the verb "to be" which you don't use it in this construction, so there should be no confusion.
the only occasion you will stumble over this in everyday language is when somebody curses or scolds. -
Miki dušo, ta konstrukcija iz pesme nije nepravilna. "neka te moje suze ubile" je nepravilno. Originally Posted by miki444
phenomena ?
this construction is grammatically wrong or incomplete anyway.
if you would want to pedantically stick to the rules you would say "neka te moje suze ubile" or "dabogda te moje suze ubile" (like ina said before she deleted her post)
to build the past tense you always need the verb "to be" which you don't use it in this construction, so there should be no confusion.
the only occasion you will stumble over this in everyday language is when somebody curses or scolds.
"Neka te moje suze ubiju" je pravilno. Da, obrisala sam poruku Zapravo, obrisala sam i jednu pre nje, a ticala se verovatnog objašnjenja tvog tačnog komentara "it also doesn't mean that i has happened but that you wish that it happens" tj. it has happened si hteo reći.
"ubile te suze moje" fali prvi deo, reč DA i to je verovatno nešto kao kondicional ili hipotetička struktura, šta već, uslovljene rečenice:
da su me ubile da nisam...da bi me ubile da nisam..., da me ubiju ako nisam.....da će me ubiti ako ne budem (bila)....
Plus, to je pesma, ti je dozvoljeno da se krati i menja zbog dužine stiha itd. Tako se i bogati jezik. -
Draga Ina, ja znam da je to samo pjesma i poeticni jezik, pokusao sam nesto objasniti covjeku koji svuda trazi gramaticka pravila Originally Posted by ina
Miki dušo, ta konstrukcija iz pesme nije nepravilna. "neka te moje suze ubile" je nepravilno.
"Neka te moje suze ubiju" je pravilno. Da, obrisala sam poruku Zapravo, obrisala sam i jednu pre nje, a ticala se verovatnog objašnjenja tvog tačnog komentara "it also doesn't mean that i has happened but that you wish that it happens" tj. it has happened si hteo reći.
"ubile te suze moje" fali prvi deo, reč DA i to je verovatno nešto kao kondicional ili hipotetička struktura, šta već, uslovljene rečenice:
da su me ubile da nisam...da bi me ubile da nisam..., da me ubiju ako nisam.....da će me ubiti ako ne budem (bila)....
Plus, to je pesma, ti je dozvoljeno da se krati i menja zbog dužine stiha itd. Tako se i bogati jezik.
uostalom sumnajm da itko govori nas jezik 100% pravilno, svi mlate manje vise neki svoj dialekt.
sto sad, jel recenica ispravna ili fali nesto ? odluci se vec jednom ? Originally Posted by ina
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Hahaha the grammar-thing... I think it's the mentality up here – discipline and structure – which is not always a good thing
Anyhow, thanks for explaining, I appreciate it.
Some things the books just won't teach us, thus I am aware of the need of spending time in the country before getting used to all the expressions and so on. -
man, you speak it more than just well,
i know so many fellow emigrant kids who would never be able to write so complicated posts with so few mistakes like you do on here. -
Složićemo se da je pesma tačna.
Da Zahal, vidiš koliko su Balkanci tvrdoglavi a disciplina nam fali zapravo. Da bi naučio drugi jezik, prvo se mora transformisati mozak da bi se poprimilo nešto od tog tuđeg temperamenta (a naš je vrlo drukčijeg od švedskog, recimo). Tada tek možes da razumeš i jezik i ljude koji ga pričaju.
Ja mislim da deca naših emigranata nisu kao mi uopšte, oni su kao deca s kojom su rasli, a vole naše samo zato što njihovi roditelji to vole. -
e mislim da ne mozes bas tako generalizirati, Originally Posted by ina
u njemackoj imas jako mali postotak onih koji se potpuno uklope u novo drustvo (bilo to dobro ili lose)
vjeruj mi, ima ocitih razlika izmedju djece emigranta i njemaca, ovdje se jako cesto emigranti i njemci druze samo medjusobno i idu na razlicita mjesta.
tako da je vrlo cesta sudbina te djece da su u njemackoj vjeciti 'ausländeri' a u 'staroj domovini' 'svabe'. (dobro, ne znam kako je u drugim zemljama) -
Hvala Originally Posted by miki444
I thinks it's a pity that emigrants' kids don't learn to speak their language correctly. I don't know why it is like that. I recently stayed with a family in Israel, who left Sweden for some 25 years ago. They have three kids in my age – and despite the parents efforts to make them speak good Swedish (summer camps, only Swedish at home etc) – they still lack a lot of knowledge, not to mention their spelling
Kontam – ma ovde neću nikad da učim vaš jezik sto posto – ali to je sledeći korak. Bar sad mislim da imam dosta znanja vašeg, pa da mogu da idem dalje.
Haha, Balkanci su jako ponosni – a temperament je vrlo drugačiji od našeg.
Sećam se jednog starijeg Bosanca. On je došao ovde da nađe bolji život, ali se vratio već posle petnaest dana.
"Samo subotom izlaze (ljudi) ovde – a gde su ostali dani..." -
A, za Nemce i Austijance to znam, to je tačno. Ali s njima i ne može čovek drukčije nego kao sa strancima, pošto su oni sami sebi stranci. Družila sam se i sa njima i sa Šveđanima, još uvek se intenzivno dopisujem sa nekim Šveđanima, pravim, i zgranula sam se koliko oni malo poznaju sebe i u globalu su bez jakih people skills, što se kaže. Ali da ne generalizujem, takvi su bili oni koje sam upoznala. Prvo što sam primetila je da su veliki materijalisti, mere svaki evro i da li će imati korist od nečega, škrti i za novac i za emocije. Egocentrični i narcisoidni, kao deca, pogotovu ti Severnjaci. Iako u suštini oni nisu loši, nemam ja ništa loše da kažem, zapravo oni su mili i idealisti, sanjari, opet kao deca, ne znaju mnogo toga, lep život ih je štitio i usporio odrastanje, tako nekako. Ja sam živela u jednoj zemlji EU i radila neko vreme i moj zaključak: pseći život i oni sami kao izdresirani psi, izvini na izrazu, još jedan mesec ovako i ja ću upasti u depresiju. Ja sam se takođe vratila. Naravno, i mi ovde imamo naše probleme, gore, ali ovde imam više volje da živim, to balkansko je već suviše jako u meni.
Potpuno razumem tog Bosanca. Mi ovde ne volimo da radimo, zato se i izlazi puno. tj. izlazi se zapravo jer se ne radi, nema posla, a i navike na nerad iz velikih državnih preduzeća iz doba socijalizma još nam se vuku iz prošlosti. Ali sada mi počinjemo da ličimo na njih i to me čak plaši.... -
jebiga, to je kapitalizam, sve se vrti oko novaca. Originally Posted by ina
kako kazu ameri "survival of the fittest" - cijeli sistem im je tako poslozen da se bore jedan protiv drugoga umjesto da suradjuju.
a oni su nam uzor, tako da i mi idemo u taj smjer.
samo se mozemo nadat da ce sve skupa ic u p.m. prije nego sto izgubimo dragu nam balkansku dusu.
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well, i'm an emigrant kid as well, though, i'm hopefully an exception. Originally Posted by Zahal
Hvala
I thinks it's a pity that emigrants' kids don't learn to speak their language correctly. I don't know why it is like that. I recently stayed with a family in Israel, who left Sweden for some 25 years ago. They have three kids in my age – and despite the parents efforts to make them speak good Swedish (summer camps, only Swedish at home etc) – they still lack a lot of knowledge, not to mention their spelling
Kontam – ma ovde neću nikad da učim vaš jezik sto posto – ali to je sledeći korak. Bar sad mislim da imam dosta znanja vašeg, pa da mogu da idem dalje.
Haha, Balkanci su jako ponosni – a temperament je vrlo drugačiji od našeg.
Sećam se jednog starijeg Bosanca. On je došao ovde da nađe bolji život, ali se vratio već posle petnaest dana.
"Samo subotom izlaze (ljudi) ovde – a gde su ostali dani..."
i do some minor mistakes here and there but i hope that my command of the language is on a fairly good level.
the difference with me is probably that my parents sent me to take croatian classes when i was little and that i do spend almost 2 months every single year in croatia.
further i polished my skills by daily reading croatian internet sites and i'm also almost exclusively listening to music from yugo-area.
most of my friends never took any classes though, visit their homeland very rarely (money is scarce) and some don't even speak their language at home.
than there are even those special cases, like some bosnians i met, who named their kids Hans and Heidi.
