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  1. #21
    Senior Member sohuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omero View Post
    I find it very funny, that "şams" means "sun" in arabic.

    In Turkish, it has no meaning alone, but we use it in "şemsiye" - umbrella, but we of course mean the umbrella which protects against the rain.
    vallahi good observation! lol
    yes well we too use "shamsiye" however it is not a formal arabic word, yani it's a word that's used informally, but it's still arabic.. the original arabic word for umbrella is "methalla=مظلة"
    but shamsiye is originally from shams, and for most arabic countries the sun is always up in the sky (most of the year) and so it is used as something that protects from the sun.. and therefore it was also used as an umbrella for rain.. (I actually didn't think of this before, when you mentioned it , it made sense so I asked about it)
    The hours of pain have yielded good,
    Which prosperous days refused;
    As herbs, though scentless when entire,
    Spread fragrance when they’re bruised.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Derin89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omero View Post
    I'm sorry, but some information are wrong...

    Turkish Language is not "based" upon Latin characters. The fact, that the latin alphabet was introduced (which I think, was a good decision, as the arab elifba was absolutely wrong for Turkish with its large vowel variety) does not mean, that Turkish is "based" upon latin characters.

    In today's Turkish there are about 6500 words of arabic origin, French 5200 and 1400 Persian.... maybe you do not recognize the arabic origin of a word anymore because you are so used to it in Turkish. And those arabic words are often used with a different meaning. Approximately 14000 foreign words are used in today's Turkish... so nearly the half of it, is of arabic origin.

    Just one example: many Turkish people think, that our beloved "Lahmacun" is a turkish word, only a few know that it comes from arabic lahm + acin (lahm meaning "meat"
    Lahmacun is obviously a dish of Arabic/Middle Eastern origin, I don't think many Turks believe it to be Turkish (Including the word used for it). At any rate, whichever alphabet you write Turkish with and no matter how many Arabic words you have, Arabic and Turkish are not similar languages. Although these common words no doubt help our Arabic friends here. In fact I don't think any language is very similar to Turkish. Grammatical similarities: Magyar, Finnish even Japanese, well yes, but still, I can't say Turkish is very similar to these languages either, though they are agglutinative languages and that makes Turkish easy to learn for a Fin or Hungarian with some degree of word similarities for the latter (see the set of examples here: http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/Turki...ca.turkce.html ) Furthermore, there are very popular Arabic words like "lahmacun" but I think many foreign words are not used now as much as they were used 50 years ago. I mean who uses "lügat" instead of "sözlük" now? Or muallim instead of "öğretmen"?

    And perhaps our friend just meant Turkish is written with the Latin alphabet when she wrote her answer, that is what I gather from the context of her response. I don't think it's a big deal!
    Bana muvaffakiyetsizlestiricilestiriveremeyebilecekleri mizdenmissinizcesineden daha uzun bir kelime bul çekirge.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigress_tim View Post
    true... but we also have : é á ö ( short ) , ő ( long ) , and ü( short ) , ű ( long ) which aren't in turkish. And about the á= it's the a from " baran" , our e, is 'e' from " elmas", " energy" , but our é is from " Selin" , and the a - far"
    Are you Hungarian... ?

    While I was living in Germany, I had a Hungarian girl friend (she came from Romania and belonged to the Hungarian minority there)...

    I always found it very difficult to twist between those different types of the same vowel... closed pronounciation and open pronounciation...

    I even bought a book teaching Hungarian, but after we broke, I put it away...

    Nice, but not easy to learn....

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derin89 View Post
    Lahmacun is obviously a dish of Arabic/Middle Eastern origin, I don't think many Turks believe it to be Turkish (Including the word used for it). At any rate, whichever alphabet you write Turkish with and no matter how many Arabic words you have, Arabic and Turkish are not similar languages. Although these common words no doubt help our Arabic friends here. In fact I don't think any language is very similar to Turkish. Grammatical similarities: Magyar, Finnish even Japanese, well yes, but still, I can't say Turkish is very similar to these languages either, though they are agglutinative languages and that makes Turkish easy to learn for a Fin or Hungarian with some degree of word similarities for the latter (see the set of examples here: http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/Turki...ca.turkce.html ) Furthermore, there are very popular Arabic words like "lahmacun" but I think many foreign words are not used now as much as they were used 50 years ago. I mean who uses "lügat" instead of "sözlük" now? Or muallim instead of "öğretmen"?

    And perhaps our friend just meant Turkish is written with the Latin alphabet when she wrote her answer, that is what I gather from the context of her response. I don't think it's a big deal!
    I did not want to insult anybody...

    the numbers I wrote down concerning the origin of foreign words in the Turkish language are from the Türk Dil Kurumu...

    OK... they are responsible for Turkish Dictionaries, but does a dictionary only consist words which are really used nowadays.

    I use the old words very often, but the reason is very special: my parents were both relatively old, when I was born, and in Germany, my parents used those words very often, because they could not follow the continous development of the Turkish language... no evolution in our familylanguage.

    I still use "mecmua" instead of "magazine"... when somone says "hayırlı bayramlar" I answer by saying "bilmukabele" and "anybody/somebody" for me is still "lalettayin"

    I do not do it because I want to be someone special... I just grew up with it. I've been trying to refresh my Turkish for 3 years now (back in Turkey), but it is not easy, when you got used to the old words.

    And to be honest: I do not use "muallim", but I use "lügat" :-)

  5. #25
    Senior Member tigress_tim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omero View Post
    Are you Hungarian... ?

    While I was living in Germany, I had a Hungarian girl friend (she came from Romania and belonged to the Hungarian minority there)...

    I always found it very difficult to twist between those different types of the same vowel... closed pronounciation and open pronounciation...

    I even bought a book teaching Hungarian, but after we broke, I put it away...

    Nice, but not easy to learn....
    Yes! I know everybody says that!
    I am Hungarian born/living in Romania.
    It is hard to learn indeed i know some friends of mine who still don't can't get the hang of it
    So i don't blame you for not being able to learn it - and besides if you broke up - it would be pointless to continue on learning , as it is not an internationally used language
    " Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive. "

  6. #26
    Senior Member Derin89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omero View Post
    I did not want to insult anybody...

    the numbers I wrote down concerning the origin of foreign words in the Turkish language are from the Türk Dil Kurumu...

    OK... they are responsible for Turkish Dictionaries, but does a dictionary only consist words which are really used nowadays.

    I use the old words very often, but the reason is very special: my parents were both relatively old, when I was born, and in Germany, my parents used those words very often, because they could not follow the continous development of the Turkish language... no evolution in our familylanguage.

    I still use "mecmua" instead of "magazine"... when somone says "hayırlı bayramlar" I answer by saying "bilmukabele" and "anybody/somebody" for me is still "lalettayin"

    I do not do it because I want to be someone special... I just grew up with it. I've been trying to refresh my Turkish for 3 years now (back in Turkey), but it is not easy, when you got used to the old words.
    I'm sure those numbers are as accurate as anyone can get, I'm not questioning the figures. I don't think you meant to insult anyone either.

    Well of course you, me or someone else can use those words, regardless of individual usages, I am just saying they are not as popular today and some have practically gone extinct in our everyday usage. So to a person who's learning Turkish today I'd suggest them to use "dergi" instead of "mecmua" because the younger generation today may not even know what mecmua is =)
    Bana muvaffakiyetsizlestiricilestiriveremeyebilecekleri mizdenmissinizcesineden daha uzun bir kelime bul çekirge.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derin89 View Post
    I'm sure those numbers are as accurate as anyone can get, I'm not questioning the figures. I don't think you meant to insult anyone either.

    Well of course you, me or someone else can use those words, regardless of individual usages, I am just saying they are not as popular today and some have practically gone extinct in our everyday usage. So to a person who's learning Turkish today I'd suggest them to use "dergi" instead of "mecmua" because the younger generation today may not even know what mecmua is =)
    My point just is, that especially those, who have an Arabic background and who are interested in the Turkish language often say, that the first motivation for them to learn Turkish were the many arabic words in Turkish.

    The examples we both talked about before, were really very special

    but what about

    zeytin, hesap, hakim, sahil, zayıf, kitap (and even the plural like in kütüphane), cumhuriyet etc...

    do we use any alternatives for them? even the younger generation uses these words...

    I just don't want our Arab friends to feel, that the importance of those arab words has reached a minimum level in our every day life. They are still everywhere.

    şarap, kadeh, şişe, kusur,harika, muhteşem, tebrik, the colour mavi, zürafa, hava, ameliyat, hamile, vakit, zaman, etc....and many more...

    maybe they are not used in the way, as they are used in Arabic, but even these these differences in meaning awakes curiosity.. and curiosity finally leads to more interest for the Turkish language
    Last edited by omero; 12-05-2009 at 12:01 AM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Derin89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omero View Post
    My point just is, that especially those, who have an Arabic background and who are interested in the Turkish language often say, that the first motivation for them to learn Turkish were the many arabic words in Turkish.

    The examples we both talked about before, were really very special

    but what about

    zeytin, hesap, hakim, sahil, zayıf, kitap (and even the plural like in kütüphane), cumhuriyet etc...

    do we use any alternatives for them? even the younger generation uses these words...

    I just don't want our Arab friends to feel, that the importance of those arab words has reached a minimum level in our every day life. They are still everywhere.

    şarap, kadeh, şişe, kusur,harika, muhteşem, tebrik, the colour mavi, zürafa, hava, ameliyat, hamile, vakit, zaman, etc....and many more...

    maybe they are not used in the way, as they are used in Arabic, but even these these differences in meaning awakes curiosity.. and curiosity finally leads to more interest for the Turkish language
    Turkish language has fortunately undergone a process of purification. That is why we call our language "Modern Turkish" and not "Ottoman Turkish". Indeed we do use foreign words even today I do not deny that and I have also pointed out that these similar words help our Arabic friends in learning the language BUT that does not change the fact that Arabic and Turkish are not similar languages. Can you say Turkish is similar to Persian? NO. Many words that have to do with religion come from Persian, not Arabic. Namaz, oruç, abdest etc. Can you say Turkish is similar to French, Greek? NO. What you wrote above makes it sound as if Turkish and Arabic are as similar as, I don't know, Spanish and Portuguese.
    Bana muvaffakiyetsizlestiricilestiriveremeyebilecekleri mizdenmissinizcesineden daha uzun bir kelime bul çekirge.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derin89 View Post
    Turkish language has fortunately undergone a process of purification. That is why we call our language "Modern Turkish" and not "Ottoman Turkish". Indeed we do use foreign words even today I do not deny that and I have also pointed out that these similar words help our Arabic friends in learning the language BUT that does not change the fact that Arabic and Turkish are not similar languages. Can you say Turkish is similar to Persian? NO. Many words that have to do with religion come from Persian, not Arabic. Namaz, oruç, abdest etc. Can you say Turkish is similar to French, Greek? NO. What you wrote above makes it sound as if Turkish and Arabic are as similar as, I don't know, Spanish and Portuguese.
    I think others can understand what I wanted to say...

    I never said anything about similarity or origin ... read again if you want to....

    Where did I make a comparison like Spanish and Portuguese.

    You want to interprete my words in a certain way? OK... it's up to you to do so.

    What I said, does not "make it sound like that" you just read my words with that intention, and I do not know why.

    The words I mentioned in my post before: are they exotic words, or are they really used?

    Do people of Arabic origin recognise only few or many words, when they here Turkish people on Turkish TV channels talk?

    If they say: "When we here Turkish people talk on TV, we hardly hear any word of arabic origin", then I admit, that I have to rethink my opinion.

    And... about your glorification of language purification... If it is based upon the people themselves, it's absolutely Ok

    Maybe in a couple of years we also use words of real Turkish origin for şişe, hamile etc. why not... I'm not against it... but at this moment, it would be wrong to neglect the existence of still many arabic-rooted words in our language.

    By the way: refer to my examples, don't mention the religious words, which I didn't talk about. All the examples I mentioned in my previous post are of arabic origin and commonly used. (tdk dictionary)

    What shall I shout, when I need help: imdat? or is there a purified version for it? ;-)
    Last edited by omero; 12-05-2009 at 03:46 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Derin89's Avatar
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    I believe my posts are challenging you comprehensibly because you insist on giving examples of Turkish words of Arabic origin as if I refuse to acknowledge their existence OR their usage. Perhaps you have preconceived ideas about people when they advocate a certain point of view, I can't tell.

    The words I gave, namaz, oruç etc were given just to compare Persian and Arabic, so I haven't the slightest idea why you tell me you're not talking about words that have to do with religion. Your examples like hamile and imdat do not exactly fit under one subject either.

    I apologize from everyone to have prolonged this discussion that has little to do with the thread. I will not post any other reply for I see it is a futile effort.

    Have a nice day.
    Bana muvaffakiyetsizlestiricilestiriveremeyebilecekleri mizdenmissinizcesineden daha uzun bir kelime bul çekirge.

  11. #31
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    turkish has MANY english words as well. when Atatürk adopted the "new" language...he gave the people involved in the task a small amount of time. i suspect what happened is that they decided to adopt many foreign words to help with the quick development of the language. and to be honest all languages adopt other words from other languages.

    to be perfectly honest--i find turkish a VERY difficult language. i found spanish, italian and even japanese a lot easier to learn. culturally i absolutely prefer america. as for beauty you know--each country has amazing landscapes.


    Quote Originally Posted by omero View Post
    I'm sorry, but some information are wrong...

    Turkish Language is not "based" upon Latin characters. The fact, that the latin alphabet was introduced (which I think, was a good decision, as the arab elifba was absolutely wrong for Turkish with its large vowel variety) does not mean, that Turkish is "based" upon latin characters.

    In today's Turkish there are about 6500 words of arabic origin, French 5200 and 1400 Persian.... maybe you do not recognize the arabic origin of a word anymore because you are so used to it in Turkish. And those arabic words are often used with a different meaning. Approximately 14000 foreign words are used in today's Turkish... so nearly the half of it, is of arabic origin.

    Just one example: many Turkish people think, that our beloved "Lahmacun" is a turkish word, only a few know that it comes from arabic lahm + acin (lahm meaning "meat"

  12. #32
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    what I am fed up with is the use of the FRENCH past participle form combined with etmek in situations, for which words exist in the Turkish language (let it be Turkish, Arabic or Farsi origin)...

    There are a lot of words coming from French (virüs, tüp, premature,kardioloji etc)... I'm not against those, but why:

    "empose etmek", "domine etmek"

    It sounds so posh to hear "ben relax oldum", when she tells about her holidays at the sea side. I usually ask if she had sufferd from "costiveness", as the names of most of the medicines to cure it and to make ...ehm... the final part of the digestion work again, end with "-lax" ;-)

    On the TV, I once heard a VIP-doctor say: ürine etmek... (for urinating)... that sounds as if they try to give themselves the aura of being cultivated. "Look, I've learnt French" or "I've studied abroad" ... but who then come up with words like "kardolap" instead of "gardırop" and when they want to say "şanjan" (from French "changeant"/changing), they say "cancan".

    And suddenly, that aura is gone at once. :-)

    A few weeks ago, someone felt the urge to say, that my clothes are "salon salamanje" (salon / salle à manger - living room/dining room)... a posh way to say, that I have put on some more kilos (the name of one room of the house is not enough to describe them (salon), they are so "big", that it can only be described by combining two rooms (salon and salle à manger) in the last couple of years.... I asked what "salle à manger" means.... no answer... pure silence

    "bang" .. ... the ballon pumped up with "aura" has exploded.... and I felt so good. :-)


    PS: especially for one user, I want to mention that Turkish and French have totally different roots and that they are not like Spanish and Portuguese!!!!! Sorry, if this post has created such an impression
    Last edited by omero; 12-06-2009 at 10:12 PM.

  13. #33
    ~ Mex Moderator ~ Zahra2008's Avatar
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    Please guys, be nice, no need to offend other members, racist comments are not allowed ...If you continue these comments, we will be need to close the thread ....
    the first love is gone ... am waiting for the last one!!

  14. #34
    ~ Mex Moderator ~ Zahra2008's Avatar
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    it seems like you are fighting with each other... please PM and solve your problems... this place not need this kindof behavior
    the first love is gone ... am waiting for the last one!!

  15. #35
    PeggySue
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    Quote Originally Posted by kedicik View Post
    Merhaba

    Then one scent passes by as if God had send it
    to rescue me.
    May I ask what the scent was that evoked the emotion?
    The imagery is lovely.

  16. #36
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    I love Turkiye because it is the place where i feel i'm truly alive. Canada is my country of birth but it feels like a grave.

    I love the Turkish language because it is so melodic and soothing to my ears and the words go deep.

  17. #37
    ercmnt
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    And if there is permission from our moderator, besides impressions if there is need we can also try to give you some information about your specific questions, at least i will try that myself. Feel free to ask here or in private messages.

  18. #38
    ercmnt
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    Afew suggestions (:

    becarefull about taxi drivers :P (not for only Turkey but i think it is the same with every country :P)

    if you are in istanbul, consider the horrible traffic, especialy certain places at certain times becomes a mess. Sometimes you can spend 45 mins in traffic for a place that you can be there in 15 mins by walking.

    Metro ? lol we are proud of our metro system which is a straight line only :P it will be useless if you are not travelling on that line .

    Food ? now that is something that to be talked about, its amazing, its delicious... of course if you know where to eat (: . There are so many choises so many prices and so many junkfood also :P . Be sure to make a plan for finding good traditional food. All of the restaurants will say " yes we are the best." but most of them sucks :P .

    to be continued ...

  19. #39
    Senior Member Kalomira's Avatar
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    I can add smth about taxi drivers
    If you're foreigner and your face is pretty different from native turk, it's more comfort and cheap to deal with driver about the total price of your travel when you're getting into the taxi. Yeah, in every car there's a counter. But you don't know the city, so he can drive you for an hour and the half to the place you can get in 15 mins

    And gils, be careful if you want to visit stadium on some inner derby. Smth like Fener-Galatasaray matches Yeah, it's cool, but dangerous) People are crazy about football (soccer) and take very serious these football wars

    By the way can smb advise me a good person who can be for me a private guide in marmaris? (Ukrainian, Russian or English-speaking)
    Herkes kendi türküsünü söyler bu şehirde sadece kendi acısına ağlar

  20. #40
    ercmnt
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    No comment from me about football (soccer)... (deeply in pain, trying to came back from a coma!!!)

    About marmaris i dont know anyone living there but i ve been there many times and i can help you in making some plans. Depending on your expectations, i will be glad if i can help.
    Last edited by ercmnt; 05-24-2010 at 06:51 AM.

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