Originally Posted by amaryn

Kheyli mamnoon, azizam!

Does this mean that the second verb appears in the infinitiv form +"be" in front of it (bedam, beshooram, bekharam...)

Which changes happen to the subjunctiv form when there is an auxiliary form in front, as then the endings are different?
(mikham beporsam, bemooni, beraghsi, biyad..? Are there rules to be remembered?
It looks rather strange to me......

kHAHESH MIKONAM
For making "subjunctive" you can't use be+infinitive...the formula is >>be+Present root+suffix

For example the verb"to buy"

Infinitive is "Kharidan"

Present root is "Khar"

subjunctive would be " be+khar+am/i/ad/im/id/and

That I buy=Ke bekharam
That you buy=Ke bekhari
That he/she buys=Ke bekharad__ke bekhare(informal)
That we buy=Ke bekharim
That you buy=Ke bekharid_____ke bekharin(informal)
That they buy=Ke bekharand_____ke bekharan(informal)

The reason that the endings( you mean the suffix??) are different is because these suffix refer to different subjects...If you look at the sentences I wrote in the first sentence :
1-I want her to come=Azash mikham ke biyad(subjunctive)
"biyad" means "that she comes!

in the second one :;2-I want to ask you=Mikham azat(az to) beporsam(subjunctive)
"am" in "beporsam" refers to "I">>>>
If for example our sentence was like this :
She wants to ask you>>>Oun mihad azat beporse/beporsad

The suffix are like this :(you gotta remember these!)
I=am >>>>>beporsam/beram/benevisam

You=i >>>beporsi/beri/benevisi

He/she=ad(formal)/e(informal) >>>beporsad(formal)/beporse(informal)

We=im >>>>beporsim/berim

You (plural)=id(formal)/in(informal but still it's polite) >>>beporsim/beporsin/berid/berin

They=and(formal)/an(informal) >>>beporsand/beporsan/beravand/beran

Ooooh that's so cool there is so much activity here! ( Salam everyone! ) We are like a study group And the questions that have been asked and the answers you gave are so helpful, it clarifies everything, even the difficulties i didn't see at first and when reading the question i was like: "hmmm that's a good question"

Originally Posted by pinky_girl

I must confess that I didn't realized that the second verb is always subjunctive until you asked me....But after thinking a bit I found out yeah they are subjunctives

Lol that's exactly how I feel with French ^^

To be sure that I understood correctly can you tell me whether these sentences are correct lotfan?
I want you to know (that...) = Azat mikham bedooni (ke...) = (ازت میخوام بدونی (که
I want to know (if...) = Man mikham bedoonam (age...) = (من میخوام بدونم (اگه

Is it okay to say "Azat mikham dooni" in informal conversation? And "Mikham azat bedooni"? (I hope i'm not making you read horrible things )

Enoo, You knock me out with your way of writing Farsi,lol WOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW! I stick to the latin way of writing, if you don't mind

Pinky: That was a very good lesson indeed and especially: now it makes sense!! Thanks again

One more question: When in a sentence there are two gerunds, what happens?

for example: "I want to see you dancing and singing"
"He likes to hear her talking and laughing"

Hello my smarty studentsseems your're working hardI really appreciate what you're doing!!After seeing your courage and enthusiasm,I started to study French again seriouslyyou guys inspired me somehow ...I like your questions very much,cause If I want to teach you on my own I don't know where to start but these questions make teaching easier for meYou guys are amazinglanguage is an interesting thing...you feel that you know it well until a foreigner asks you:"why is that"? and that's the time you realize you don't know your language that well
Wow Enoo,I'm speechless...did you write those sentences on your own,without any help??they are superbbbbbbb...no mistake in them at all....your sentences are completely correctYou deserve A+++

Enoo jan! It's not ok to say "Azat mikham dooni"...why? because you can omit "be" only when you have "kardan" in your verb..like "tamasha kardan=تماشا کردن (to watch)/ negah kardan=نگاه کردن(to look at)/ tavajoh kardan=توجه کردن (to pay attention)/Boos kardan=بوس کردن (To kiss)/ kharj kardan=خرج کردن(to spend money)....whenever you see "kardan" in your verb then you are allowed to omit "be" in subjunctive....but about other verbs you must keep "be" even in conversation..
For your second question you will have 2 options:
1-Azat mikham bedooni ke...
2-Mikham azat ke bedooni...

Originally Posted by amaryn

Enoo, You knock me out with your way of writing Farsi,lol WOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW! I stick to the latin way of writing, if you don't mind

Pinky: That was a very good lesson indeed and especially: now it makes sense!! Thanks again

One more question: When in a sentence there are two gerunds, what happens?

for example: "I want to see you dancing and singing"
"He likes to hear her talking and laughing"

Amaryn it seems you've found a new rival in learning Farsi called Enoo..heheThat's my pleasure dear
Oh what a good question , in this situation the two gerunds are translated like "simple present"

"I want to see you dancing and singing"=Mikham(simple present) bebinam(subjunctive) ke to miraghsi(simple present) o mikhooni(simple present)

He likes to hear her talking and laughing"=Oun doost dare ke bebine oun harf mizane(simple present) o mikhande(simple present)

***To talk=harf zadan=حرف زدن(infinitive)______harf zan(present root)

**To laugh=Khandidan=خندیدن(infinitive)______khand(pres ent root)

**To dance=Raghsidan=رقصیدن (infinitive)______raghs(present root)

**To sing=Khandan(formal)/khoondan(informal)=خواندن/خوندن (infinitive)_______khan(خوان)(present root)

Originally Posted by amaryn

Enoo, You knock me out with your way of writing Farsi,lol WOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW! I stick to the latin way of writing, if you don't mind

Originally Posted by pinky_girl

Wow Enoo,I'm speechless...did you write those sentences on your own,without any help??they are superbbbbbbb...no mistake in them at all....your sentences are completely correctYou deserve A+++

Aaawwwwww thank you both, you're making me blushing so much right now!!! I like very much these letters, they're like a code for me because I can read them only words by words for now. And actually my laptop did the whole work and though i watch some videos on youtube to see if i could learn the handwriting but wooooooooow that will be for later And yesssss Amaryn, Finglish is easier for us to learn Farsi ^^ And noooooo there's no competition, there's only the fun of traveling together ^^

Originally Posted by pinky_girl

Hello my smarty students seems your're working hard I really appreciate what you're doing!!After seeing your courage and enthusiasm,I started to study French again seriously you guys inspired me somehow ...I like your questions very much,cause If I want to teach you on my own I don't know where to start but these questions make teaching easier for me You guys are amazing language is an interesting thing...you feel that you know it well until a foreigner asks you:"why is that"? and that's the time you realize you don't know your language that well

Oooooh that's sooooo nice! Lotf dari ^^ And whenever you need help in French you can find me and ask me I'm eager to know more about French

Pinky jan kheyli kheyli mamnooooooon for your explanations!! it's really good to know what it is wrong to say because when I want to do some sentences by myself I'm always afraid to make up a whole new language Now it's clear, "be" can be omitted only with "kardan"! And thank you for the new words - very useful!!

Imagine that! The gerunds as simple presents... You DO have a inspirational language, Pinky and,btw, gr8 you have picked up French again.
I am sure Enoo will like that

You're welcome my dear friendsand let me tell you something, there are different types of Farsi handwritings and the more beautiful they are,the more difficult to learnand to tell the truth for learning these handwritings you have to go to class and practice so much...I don't know any of these handwritings either!! shame on methough my friends say that my handwriting is nice and very neat and clean but still I believe it can get better
by the way,never be afraid of making mistakes,you're here to learn so making mistakes is a part of learning

o yes, we like spamming your thread here with our mistakes Any time!

Taking the questions above still further:

What if a sentence looks like this:

"She thinks she would like to hear Farzad singing and playing next week":

or:

"she wants that you buy a record of Farzad to hear him singing and playing the guitar"

such sentences are not unusual in English : what comes in what mode in Farsi in these cases?

Originally Posted by pinky_girl

You're welcome my dear friendsand let me tell you something, there are different types of Farsi handwritings and the more beautiful they are,the more difficult to learnand to tell the truth for learning these handwritings you have to go to class and practice so much...I don't know any of these handwritings either!! shame on methough my friends say that my handwriting is nice and very neat and clean but still I believe it can get better
by the way,never be afraid of making mistakes,you're here to learn so making mistakes is a part of learning

Oh i didn't know there were several handwritings!! Yes i suppose that it's like learning to draw, it doesn't come out of nowhere but you have to exercise for a long time before you can draw the elegant lines. I'm still wondering: do some people write Farsi as it is typed in here for example, with all the letters on the same line? Because in the videos I've seen words started all above the line and only the last letter or the last two ones were on the horizontal line, and it's was more difficult for me the read it ^^

.......and how about the wordorder in these phrases I put in #911? tricky

Originally Posted by amaryn

o yes, we like spamming your thread here with our mistakes Any time!

Taking the questions above still further:

What if a sentence looks like this:

"She thinks she would like to hear Farzad singing and playing next week":

or:

"she wants that you buy a record of Farzad to hear him singing and playing the guitar"

such sentences are not unusual in English : what comes in what mode in Farsi in these cases?

hahahahahaeven your spamming is welcomed
Ooooooooooo you used Farzad in your examples...How dare you....?

She thinks she would like to hear Farzad singing and playing next week=
Ou(she) fekr mikonad(thinks/simple present) ke(that) doost darad(would like/simple present) khandan(singing) va(and) guitar zadane(playing) farzad ra ("farzad is object so we use the sign of object which is "ra") hafteye bad(next week) beshnavad(hear/subjunctive)>>>>>>>>>>>this was formal........



او فکر می کند که دوست دارد خواندن و گیتار زدن فرزاد را هفته ی دیگر بشنود

.now the informal form :
**Oun fek mikone ke doos dare khoondano guitar zadane farzado hafteye dige beshnave!!
اون فک میکنه که دوس داره خوندن و گیتار زدن فرزادو هفته ی دیگه بشنوه

she wants that you buy a record of Farzad to hear him singing and playing the guitar=
Ou(she) mikhahad (wants) ke(that) to/shoma(you) yek(a) cdiye(cd/record) farzad ra bekhari/bekharid(buy/subjunctive) ta (to) khandano guitar zadane ou ra beshnavad(hear him singing and playing guitar)
او میخواهد که تو/شما یک سی دیه فرزاد را بخری/بخرید تا خواندن و گیتار زدن او را بشنود

Now the informal form:
Oun mikhad ke to ye cidiye farzado bekhari ta khoondano guitar zadanesho beshnave!
اون میخواد که تو یه سی دیه فرزادو بخری تا خوندن و گیتار زدنشو بشنوه

Originally Posted by Enoo

Oh i didn't know there were several handwritings!! Yes i suppose that it's like learning to draw, it doesn't come out of nowhere but you have to exercise for a long time before you can draw the elegant lines. I'm still wondering: do some people write Farsi as it is typed in here for example, with all the letters on the same line? Because in the videos I've seen words started all above the line and only the last letter or the last two ones were on the horizontal line, and it's was more difficult for me the read it ^^

hahahahaha,yeah it's kind of like drawing and at first it is very difficult to control your hand!!I remember at elementary school we had to write down a single letter many times, like two pagesbut little by little it gets easier...My handwriting is like the way you type Farsi...I write all the letters on the same line very neat and cclear,this handwriting is easy to read and it's very legible and the handwriting which is used in books and newspapers is like this...but some people think that this type of handwriting is boring and not that beautiful, so the most beautiful handwriting is "Nastealigh"...>>نستعلیق
LIKE THESE ONES:
http://bahoneh.persiangig.com/image/khosh-bash.jpg
http://hossein882.persiangig.com/aro...eb/satr/f2.jpg
http://www.almustafaou.com/farsicity/farsict/part4.zip
Actually learning "nastealigh" is very hard and it like learning an art!! and though you can writh nastealigh with pen or pencil but when you wanna show that you are good at it you write it with some special things called "ghalam and johar"..."ghalam" is something made of wood(http://www.iranvij.ir/upload/images/...xgf2hgyiyj.jpg) and johar is a special black color for writing but it's not usually black it can be brown or other colors too (http://www.zahedan-tebyan.ir/userdat...150.jpg)....so when you learn this type of handwriting, there is special exam for it and if you pass the exam they will give you certificate

Oh so you can even be certified at Nastealigh wooooow seems to be a very codified art Codified and traditional The pictures of Nastealigh are so beautiful!! It does look like drawings! But this one called khosh-bash, I was thinking inside "oh this looks totally like a puzzle... where are the words ending?? Which point belongs to which letter??"
I think i would like very much your handwriting first because i have no doubt it's very beautiful and secondly because I could be able to read it خیلی ممنون for this very interesting information about Nastealigh!

Enoo, mon amie: nastealigh looks like drawings you mean probably I suppose there is no special keyboard for it, but the method is the Good Old
Writing With The Tongue Hanging On Your Shoes, as the old Dutch saying goes Btw:
Enoo , how do you manage to do the handwriting on the computer? Remember I am a technical wreck.... It looks stunningly good and precise to me!
Compliments of a humble admirer

Kheyli mamnoon, Pinky azizam for the fascinating links. I am spellbound by the beauty

Oooops thank you, I meant "drawings" indeed Well I suppose you can download some special fonts to write in Nastealigh but it's cheating And there's no way a computer can rend the beauty of the handwriting written with the ghalam and johar, and its nuances on the paper...
Ahah the expression you used depicts so well the truth

Ooooh thank you dear Amaryn! To write with Farsi letters on the computer it's really easy (don't worry I'm very good at technical assistance ). If you have windows 7 (but i guess it's the same with 2000/xp etc). In your tool bar (usually at the bottom of your screen there are two letters saying in which language is your keyboard - for example if it's in English (qwerty) it will be EN, for French (azerty) it's FR, etc. Right click on it then click on "Parameters", on the first tab you can add new keyboards - click on add - then scroll down until you find Persian - tick the little box - click on okay. By default the shortcut to switch from one keyboard to another is "Alt + Shift", if you want to change it the option is on the last tab (Advanced parameters or something like that).

Sorry if this is too much off-topic but as it's about writing in Farsi alphabet I thought it could be useful here.

Thanks for explaining. It's not off-topic by any chance, just to put this process running means I need someone by my side to prevent me
from seeing nightmares,lol One of these days, Enoo!

Originally Posted by Enoo

Oh so you can even be certified at Nastealigh wooooow seems to be a very codified art Codified and traditional The pictures of Nastealigh are so beautiful!! It does look like drawings! But this one called khosh-bash, I was thinking inside "oh this looks totally like a puzzle... where are the words ending?? Which point belongs to which letter??"
I think i would like very much your handwriting first because i have no doubt it's very beautiful and secondly because I could be able to read it.. خیلی ممنون for this very interesting information about Nastealigh!

Yep! we can consider it as an art and sometimes it's even hard for me to read what's written....my sister took "Nastealigh" classes and has certificate,too and so it's easy for her to read this kind of handwriting but for me sometimes is hardhahahahaha...sometimes they use some points that they don't belong to any letter, they just use those points to make the handwriting more beautiful and fill the blanks!!!
Awwwwwww glad that at least you like my handwriting!yOU're so welcome

Originally Posted by amaryn

Enoo, mon amie: nastealigh looks like drawings you mean probably I suppose there is no special keyboard for it, but the method is the Good Old
Writing With The Tongue Hanging On Your Shoes, as the old Dutch saying goes Btw:
Enoo , how do you manage to do the handwriting on the computer? Remember I am a technical wreck.... It looks stunningly good and precise to me!
Compliments of a humble admirer

Kheyli mamnoon, Pinky azizam for the fascinating links. I am spellbound by the beauty

you're welcome dear amarynthere is no special keyboard for writing "Nastealigh" but there are some softwares for computer that let you change the ordinary handwriting to nastealigh!but I found an interesting site about it called "http://www.nastaliqonline.ir/, in this site first of all delete all the things which are written in the yellow box ,after that type something in Persian letters in the yellow box and then you click on "خطاطی کن"and then it will give you the nasteaigh form of what you typedIt's really coooooooooool and you're gonna enjoy it very much

by the way amaryn what's the meaning of this expression:Good Old Writing With The Tongue Hanging On Your Shoes,???Seems a bit weird to me...I can't figure it out