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  1. #1
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Default Is this correct idiomatic Greek?

    "Η μεγαλύτερη αμαρτία στον κόσμο είναι αν δεν πάει, όταν μια γυναίκα σας ζητά να κρεβάτι.
    Πώς μπορώ να ξέρω;
    Μια παλιά σοφή Τούρκος μου είπε."

    Is this the best idiomatic way to say:

    "The greatest sin in the world is if you do not go when a woman asks you to her bed.
    How do I know?
    A wise old Turk told me."

    Would it be better without the two "μια" in it:

    "Η μεγαλύτερη αμαρτία στον κόσμο είναι αν δεν πάει, όταν γυναίκα σας ζητά να κρεβάτι.
    Πώς μπορώ να ξέρω;
    Παλιά σοφή Τούρκος μου είπε."
    Last edited by David Halitsky; 01-09-2015 at 04:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Halitsky View Post
    "Η μεγαλύτερη αμαρτία στον κόσμο είναι αν δεν πάει, όταν μια γυναίκα σας ζητά να κρεβάτι.
    Πώς μπορώ να ξέρω;
    Μια παλιά σοφή Τούρκος μου είπε."

    Is this the best idiomatic way to say:

    "The greatest sin in the world is if you do not go when a woman asks you to her bed.
    How do I know?
    A wise old Turk told me."

    Would it be better without the two "μια" in it:

    "Η μεγαλύτερη αμαρτία στον κόσμο είναι αν δεν πάει, όταν γυναίκα σας ζητά να κρεβάτι.
    Πώς μπορώ να ξέρω;
    Παλιά σοφή Τούρκος μου είπε."
    "Η μεγαλύτερη αμαρτία στον κόσμο είναι να μην πάς, όταν μία γυναίκα σε ζητάει στο κρεβάτι της".
    Πού να ξέρω; Μιά γριά σοφή Τουρκάλα μου τό είπε.

    (που να ξέρω comes from: από πού να ξέρω) also πως μπορώ να ξέρω είναι σωστό.
    Αν υπάρχει κάτι που δεν χρειάζεται την πλειοψηφία για να είναι σωστό, αυτό είναι η ανθρώπινη συνείδηση.

  3. #3
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Thanks very much Duffy. I see that the idiomatic Greek "να μην πάς" is actually very similar to the English

    The greatest sin in the world is "for you not to go", when a woman asks you to her bed.

    Here is an English translation of the original quote from the novel:

    http://www.goodreads.com/author/quot...os_Kazantzakis

    “If a woman sleeps alone it puts a shame on all men. God has a very big heart, but there is one sin He will not forgive. If a woman calls a man to her bed and he will not go.”
    Nikos Kazantzakis, Zorba the Greek


    Do you think you could easily find the original Greek passage? (I don't want you to bother if it would be a lot of trouble.)

    I'm asking if you can find the original Greek because I think in the original, the wise old Turk was a Τούρκος, not a Τουρκάλα. But I'm not sure - you may be right.

    (The passage occurs in the novel when the widow has made it clear that she wants the boss to be her lover, and the boss hesitates. At that point, Zorba says the famous lines to the boss. )

  4. #4
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Halitsky View Post
    Do you think you could easily find the original Greek passage? (I don't want you to bother if it would be a lot of trouble.)
    Here's the link to the novel in Greek -> http://dim-agnant.kar.sch.gr/autosch...ksi_Zormpa.pdf

    The first point is on page 132 "Γιατί μωρέ ρωμιόπουλο ...." till the end of the page
    the second is on page 136 "Μη γελάς αφεντικό .... κι ο χότζας"

    so he was obviously a male Turk

    Follows a link to the original with some translation-> http://tilliskay.wordpress.com/2013/...ation-follows/
    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to?
    You will never find that life for which you are looking.
    When the gods created man they allotted to him death,
    but life they retained in their own keeping"

  5. #5
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    That was very kind of you, Amethystos. I will use the opportunity you've given me to see if I can puzzle out a little of the original for myself. Does the passage have a lot of Cretan idioms in it, or is it pretty standard early 20th century demotic? Reason I ask is that is the passage is heavily flavored with Cretanisms, then I won't stand a chance.

    Also, I should tell you that I've learned one new thing already from your post, about this gentleman:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Hoxha

    I had no idea he was of Turkish/Islamic descent.

    But if you Google χότζας, you will see that this word is Greek for Turkish "hoxha" (teacher/preacher), and if you Google Enver Hoxha, you will see that in fact, he was from a Turkish family.

  6. #6
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    Χα χα χα, νομίζω ότι με τον Καζαντζάκη θα τα βρείς σκούρα...Δεν είναι να κάνεις αρχή με τα δικά του βιβλία.

    Δοκίμασε αυτό: http://menelaos.weebly.com/uploads/4...60/__31328.pdf
    Αν υπάρχει κάτι που δεν χρειάζεται την πλειοψηφία για να είναι σωστό, αυτό είναι η ανθρώπινη συνείδηση.

  7. #7
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Duffy -

    Regarding your comment:

    νομίζω ότι με τον Καζαντζάκη θα τα βρείς σκούρα

    do you mean that you think Nikos K probably went to Hell after he died, not Heaven?

    Also, regarding this:

    Δοκίμασε αυτό: http://menelaos.weebly.com/uploads/4...60/__31328.pdf

    would you care to summarize what it says about Kazantzakis. I tried to puzzle out the only paragraph that mentions him, but couldn't:

    Το νούμερο 31328 μπορεί να μιλά για το συγκεκριμένο ιστορικό περιστατικό, αλλά δεν διακρίνει
    νικητές και ηττημένους, δεν ξεχωρίζει καλούς και κακούς, τουλάχιστον στις πρώτες του εκδόσεις
    όπου ήταν σαφέστερες και εντονότερες, απ' ό,τι στις μεταγενέστερες εκδόσεις, οι καταγγελίες για
    τις φρικαλεότητες του πολέμου, τόσο από πλευράς Ελλήνων όσο και από πλευράς Τούρκων. («Τον
    Άνθρωπο ατίμασαν στη Μικρά Ασία Έλληνες και Τούρκοι», έγραφε ο Καζαντζάκης.) Μ

  8. #8
    Ange ou Demon Amethystos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Halitsky View Post
    Duffy -

    Regarding your comment:

    νομίζω ότι με τον Καζαντζάκη θα τα βρείς σκούρα

    do you mean that you think Nikos K probably went to Hell after he died, not Heaven?
    He only meant that you will find some difficulties while trying to read Kazantzakis.

    "τα βρίσκω σκούρα" -> I'm having some difficulties (Idiom)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Halitsky View Post
    «Τον Άνθρωπο ατίμασαν στη Μικρά Ασία Έλληνες και Τούρκοι», έγραφε ο Καζαντζάκης.
    "It's human race which was disgraced by (both) Greeks and Turks in Minor Asia" Kazantzakis wrote.
    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to?
    You will never find that life for which you are looking.
    When the gods created man they allotted to him death,
    but life they retained in their own keeping"

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    David Halitsky (01-10-2015)

  10. #9
    Senior Member David Halitsky's Avatar
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    Thank you Amethystos - I should have seen that ending of βρείς is second person (you), not third person (he).

    I was going too fast and thought it said "I think that Kazantzakis will find the 'dark'."

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